Kafers in MGT

[Vile]

2300 AD, not 23XX AD please.

That's the plan!

Yes!

The only change we have looked at making (beyond the system itself) is to alter the background so it becomes a true prequel for the OTU

No!

- but that is unlikely to happen, it seems.

Yes!

I just wish that Marc would tear away all his licenses from QLI and give all the existing rights to 2320AD to Mongoose, and then they could actually do it justice.

I may be wrong, but I believe all that ends, literally, tomorrow. . .

Huzzah! :mrgreen:

 

[The Chef]

quick question sorry,

does anyone know if the tons listed for 2300 are the same as Dtons in traveller...

just trying to design a Kafer Beta class cruiser using High guard. Its listed as 47000 tons but having just done a version of it i've only used 23000dtons. i think i must have dones something seriously wrong

Thanks

chef

 

[Sturn]

quick question sorry,

does anyone know if the tons listed for 2300 are the same as Dtons in traveller...

2300 AD used m3 for internal volume. Mass was seperate from volume. In fact you had to keep track of volume, mass, and external surface area when designing ships. Not sure how this would translate into displacement tons which were used in Traveller to simplify things. One displacement ton is 4m3 in MGT correct? (on a deckplan two squares is a ton which are 2m high). That's not literal I'm afraid since I recall displacement tons having to do something with displacement of hydrogen (bigger volume and bigger mass both contribute to larger displacement). But, with the deckplan volume you would divide 2300 AD internal volume by 4 to give you displacement tons for MGT (but it leaves mass completely out of it).

Someone with true math skills please chime in and tell me I'm confused.

I don't have my 2300 AD books nearby. If you use the Kafer Beta volume (m3), not mass (tons), then divide it by 4 does it come up in the right ballpark? You could compare these values to what you think they would be by the pictures in the game also. A.i. does the Kafer Beta look the size of a 20,000-ton Traveller ship, etc. I think most of the 2300 AD ships would be much smaller then their counterparts in Traveller.

 

[EDG]

I've PM'd Matt for clarification on his comment about QLI's licenses. Haven't heard anything back yet (I don't think he's read it as of the time I post this) but I am very curious to know what's happened if it does turn out to be true.

 

[TravellerArt]

Huzzah! :mrgreen:

Absobloodylutely

 

[EDG]

The only change we have looked at making (beyond the system itself) is to alter the background so it becomes a true prequel for the OTU - but that is unlikely to happen, it seems.

I don't think there's any reason for it to happen - they're two very different universes (everything from the history to the star charts to the aliens are incompatible). The 2300AD setting is nothing whatsoever to do with the OTU/Charted Space setting. Plus, GURPS Interstellar Wars pretty much covered that kind of era anyway - there's nowhere for you to put the 2300AD background in the OTU's history, even if you tried.

The only reason 2300AD has been associated with Traveller in the past was because of an ill-advised marketing move by GDW when they called the first edition of it "Traveller: 2300" to try to get Traveller fans to buy it - but even then it was a completely different setting (and ruleset).

I'm all for 2300AD to be released using the MGT rules. but please keep its setting separate from the OTU - mashing them together won't work, and won't please anybody, and more to the point will remove pretty much everything that makes 2300AD an interesting setting.


I'm guessing the problem is that you want to make 2300AD different enough for people to want to buy. But since 2320AD is (possibly?) off-limits, and Colin doesn't seem interested in moving the timeline on or writing up a different future for it, you seem to be stuck with doing a vanilla 2300AD.

I think in my ideal world I'd like to see all the rights for 2320AD handed over to you, and then you can release Colin's version and get all that other cool stuff released that he had planned for it before QLI let him down.

 

[The Chef]

quick question sorry,

does anyone know if the tons listed for 2300 are the same as Dtons in traveller...

2300 AD used m3 for internal volume. Mass was seperate from volume. In fact you had to keep track of volume, mass, and external surface area when designing ships. Not sure how this would translate into displacement tons which were used in Traveller to simplify things. One displacement ton is 4m3 in MGT correct? (on a deckplan two squares is a ton which are 2m high). That's not literal I'm afraid since I recall displacement tons having to do something with displacement of hydrogen (bigger volume and bigger mass both contribute to larger displacement). But, with the deckplan volume you would divide 2300 AD internal volume by 4 to give you displacement tons for MGT (but it leaves mass completely out of it).

Someone with true math skills please chime in and tell me I'm confused.

I don't have my 2300 AD books nearby. If you use the Kafer Beta volume (m3), not mass (tons), then divide it by 4 does it come up in the right ballpark? You could compare these values to what you think they would be by the pictures in the game also. A.i. does the Kafer Beta look the size of a 20,000-ton Traveller ship, etc. I think most of the 2300 AD ships would be much smaller then their counterparts in Traveller.

Thanks Sturn,

going to try this now, will let you know the results.

besides i'm changing the overal design for the Vah ships as i'm giving them a differnt strategy but want to keep to the shapes and sizes previously published.

 

[andrew boulton]

quick question sorry,

does anyone know if the tons listed for 2300 are the same as Dtons in traveller...

2300 AD used m3 for internal volume. Mass was seperate from volume. In fact you had to keep track of volume, mass, and external surface area when designing ships. Not sure how this would translate into displacement tons which were used in Traveller to simplify things. One displacement ton is 4m3 in MGT correct? (on a deckplan two squares is a ton which are 2m high). That's not literal I'm afraid since I recall displacement tons having to do something with displacement of hydrogen (bigger volume and bigger mass both contribute to larger displacement). But, with the deckplan volume you would divide 2300 AD internal volume by 4 to give you displacement tons for MGT (but it leaves mass completely out of it).

Someone with true math skills please chime in and tell me I'm confused.

In Traveller, 1 dton = 14m3. Deckplan squares are 1.5m x 1.5m x 3m. 2 squares = 13.5m3, which is close enough to call a dton. (In TNE, 1 square = 2 x 2 x 3.5m = 1dt).

 

[The Chef]

yes, but according to the kafer sourcebook the size of a type beta is 47000 tons, with no dims.... hence why i was asking how it converts

 

[qstor]

I'm sure that 2300 can fit using the Mongoose rules. After all there's B5 and Judge Dredd settings too.

I'd be inclined to get the 2300 book. I think it should have a lot of setting material and little on the way of equipment. I think supplement 6 for MGT is great and could easliy be used in 2300 but we need the USMC weapons

Mike

 

[andrew boulton]

yes, but according to the kafer sourcebook the size of a type beta is 47000 tons, with no dims.... hence why i was asking how it converts

I don't know 2300 well, but AFAICT that's it's *mass*. There should also be a volume listed in m3 - divide this by 14 to get Traveller dtons.

 

[The Chef]

I divided by 4 which gives me 11750Dton which seems about right. if i do by 14 it gives me 3500Dton (ish seriously rounding up) which doesn't account for the nearly 500 (only 120 are soldiers) crew they have.

Chef

 

[dreamingbadger]

http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Ton

 

[Sturn]

Someone with true math skills please chime in and tell me I'm confused.

In Traveller, 1 dton = 14m3. Deckplan squares are 1.5m x 1.5m x 3m. 2 squares = 13.5m3, which is close enough to call a dton. (In TNE, 1 square = 2 x 2 x 3.5m = 1dt).

I should have known this, I've done enough deckplans.

So divide 2300AD m3 (not mass) by 14 to see what happens as already stated.

I divided by 4 which gives me 11750Dton which seems about right. if i do by 14 it gives me 3500Dton (ish seriously rounding up) which doesn't account for the nearly 500 (only 120 are soldiers) crew they have.

Chef

But 3500 tons does seem better for the size of the Kafer Betas as protrayed. Crews in 2300 AD were much larger then in OTU. Not sure how to help you there. You didn't have small 100-ton ships being run by a crew of 1. Even the "traders" such as the Thorez of 2300 AD had large crews compared to OTU. Increase crew size greatly due to lower TL?

 

[The Chef]

and yes, Kafers would need larger crews for motivational purposes

oh well time to redo the figures again!

Chef

 

[Border Reiver]

It's still the ship volume required to get displacement tons not mass.

An example is the Anjou class freighter in the main game. A cylinder 20m x 100m giving a volume of approx 125714m³

Dividing by 14 gives a displacement of approx 8980 dton. (Using MegaTraveller's 13.5m³ dton it's a bit bigger).

But I can't find a volume for Kafer ships yet.

 

[Sturn]

But I can't find a volume for Kafer ships yet.

I think I have everything ever produced for 2300 AD. Volume of Kafer ships not listed? Just mass? If needed I can go dig around in the basement. Perhaps listed in the Kafer Sourcebook or Starcruiser?

 

[Border Reiver]

Not in KS but perhaps Starcruiser.

 

[Sevya]

I didn't see it in Starcruiser, either. You may be able to backtrack and figure it out from the radial and lateral reflected signatures, though.

Sevya

 

[Dave Chase]

Not in KS but perhaps Starcruiser.

Not in Kansas (KS) any more Toto. :lol:

Whats not in Kansas any more?

Dave Chase