Jump Precisions

These aren't the droids you are looking for..?

If it is all safe and easy why even have skills that apply to it. Just say the ships computer does all that and have done.
You just descibed CT jump travel. The navigator can make themselves useful by carrying the cassettes, installing and uninstalling them, pressing the big red button, and making coffee whenever asked.

I houseruled navigators plotting jumps and maintaining a jump rutter years ago.
 
The official CT statement is 1 part per 10 billion. I'm not going to do the math on that, but Marc Miller's article claims that means "within about 3000 meters over a 1 parsec distance." Is that pinpoint or not? As I mentioned above, Tarsus & Beltstrike boxed sets from the CT era state that commercial ships almost never fail to not only arrive at the 100D limit, but do so at the closest point to a satellite within it.

Those are, to the best of my knowledge, 100% of the actual mechanics on jump drive accuracy across the CT rules set. And I couldn't find anything different in T:NE. I don't have the megatraveller rulebook anymore to confirm if that was different.

In classic traveller, an astrogator is actually optional. The calculation is done entirely by the ship's navigation computer. Your astrogator, if you have one, is basically just making sure the program didn't bug out and give nonsense results. Only ships above 200dtons required a navigator in the crew. And, even more so than now, they likely served as co-pilot more than astrogator specifically.

I'm fine with shifting more actual responsibility to the Astrogator and making their skills more relevant. But the rules as written are not good. Jumps are actually quite likely to be problematic, so there is no way that someone with Astrogation 1 would get a commercial astrogator's license. The way that chart works about 10% of jumps by someone with +2 Astrogation roll would be a "bad jump". Commercial traffic such as we assume happens in Charted Space would not be the case if the crew and passengers were getting nauseated on one 1 in 10 jumps, not to mention the risk of being off into the 100D limit (something not possible in CT).
I am not sure how you get to 1 in 10 jumps being bad. Rolling 2d6 and adding the effect of the Astrogation skill check is likely to be well above 6. as the Astrogator only needs 4+ on the skill check for a standard jump. The minimum he can roll is 2, a professional Astrogator should be at least Astrogation - 1 and I would expect him to be Educated for another +1. He has time to take extra care giving him another +2 and he's probably got an expert system helping him for another +1. For jump 1 that makes a minimum effect of +3. If he rolls 3 or more on the actual distance variance check he will get 6 and no bad jump. There is a 0.7% chance of rolling less than 3. A Professional Astrogator will rarely make a bad jump. For ships making longer jumps I would expect proportionally more qualified crews.

The only way you can get into the 10% level is if you start talking about people with skill less than 1 or education penalties or not having appropriate tools or desperately trying to hack together a plot in minutes because you suddenly got bumped by pirates, or making very long jumps or doing it from inside 100D limits etc. Then yes you might have a bad jump, but I think that is entirely reasonable.
 
If you want to screw around with jump accuracy, without really effecting the game, jump make each further parsec traversed increasingly difficult.

Let's make the break even point at three parsecs, after which, you need a really qualified astrogators.
 
First, you aren't reading the rules correctly. There is a -DM on the astrogation check equal to the distance. So a standard J2 by a far trader is effectively a 6+, assuming no other modifiers. Secondly, the base time on an astrogation check is 30 minutes. So "extra time" moves that check to the 1d6 hours range. Not trivial and certainly not redo-able in a prep to the jump point.

You can, as I mentioned, assume there's other modifiers. But if those are standard, why aren't they actually built into the basic mechanics instead of being an optional upgrade? As far as Education goes, university graduates are EDU 8. Which is an above average EDU. You can, again, assume that even more Education is required but that is also not in the rules. I, in fact, mentioned in my post that you should house rule in all these extra requirements if using the rules as written.
 
If you want to screw around with jump accuracy, without really effecting the game, jump make each further parsec traversed increasingly difficult.

Let's make the break even point at three parsecs, after which, you need a really qualified astrogators.
That's actually the default rule already?
 
"Retains its vector" opens up a tanker truck full of worms. Are you talking about parallel transport? Then you have to declare what path along what manifold...
 
It retains its velocity and direction according to the quotes in Marc Miller's article. However, in T:NE part of the astrogator's job involves making sure that the ship comes out pointing towards the destination. So direction seems variable? And in T5, you can change realspace velocity and direction in Jump Space as long as you are using a reaction drive, not a gravitic drive. *shrugs*

The constant is that you can enter jumpspace with a velocity and will exit it with the same velocity (barring T5 shenanigans).
 
No, really screw with the jump rules.

From inconvenient, a couple of million miles off course, to lethal, leaving half of the spacecraft in jump space on exit.

So that if you want to attempt a jump factor six, you have the best astrogator and engineers on board.
 
First, you aren't reading the rules correctly. There is a -DM on the astrogation check equal to the distance. So a standard J2 by a far trader is effectively a 6+, assuming no other modifiers. Secondly, the base time on an astrogation check is 30 minutes. So "extra time" moves that check to the 1d6 hours range. Not trivial and certainly not redo-able in a prep to the jump point.

You can, as I mentioned, assume there's other modifiers. But if those are standard, why aren't they actually built into the basic mechanics instead of being an optional upgrade? As far as Education goes, university graduates are EDU 8. Which is an above average EDU. You can, again, assume that even more Education is required but that is also not in the rules. I, in fact, mentioned in my post that you should house rule in all these extra requirements if using the rules as written.
I fear you did not read my post correctly. I include the 1 for Jump 1 in my calculation which is why the effect was +3 rather than +4.

If you get it right first time you do not need to redo any jump roll. Taking 3.5 hours on average and maximum 6 hours is certainly not a trivial amount of time, but since it is your primary job, it is hardly onerous. Plots don't "go stale" for 3d hours so throwing one together in as little as 10 minutes is negligent. Transits might well be 4 hours anyway but where is it written that you start planning the journey at the same time you start the engines.

As Astrogators are at the upper end of crew pay scale I don't think that taking the cream of the crop is unreasonable and Education is one of the easiest stats to improve.

An average student (EDU 7) goes to college to study. They Major in Astrogation 1 and they minor in Electronics(Sensors) 0. Their EDU is increased to 8. We will assume they graduate as we aren't taking drop outs (and Graduation isn't hard). They increase to Astrogation 2 and Electronic(Sensors) 1 and increase EDU to 9 (+1). Right out of college they get +3 to Astrogation rolls and they get +2 on Sensor rolls and +1 on all other Electronics tasks making them entirely useful. I would however expect them to take at least a single term in a career to learn the ropes before being assigned to anything other than a milk run. They stand a very good chance of being recruited and promoted in their first term since advancement is EDU based. A single term in the Navy would round the character skills out nicely and given them some starting capital and possibly rank and a nice uniform.

With you skill level already at 2 you might as well get a very basic Astrogation Expert/1 system to get another +1. It will cost Cr1100 at TL10 and you can take it out of your first KCr5 wages. In most starports you should be able to source a TL12 Specialist Intelligent Interface Computer/1 with the software for under Cr600 that will fit in a watch.

Frankly Astrogation-1 is poor. A cleaning droid with a Cr100 primitive brain is Profession(Cleaner) 2. +4 to Astrogation checks isn't difficult for even a recent grad to attain.

But if you chose to have college dropouts casually plotting jumps after less than an hours prep then 10% chance of a bad experience is to be expected.
 
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There is substantial randomness around the point in time a jumping ship emerges from jump space, 1d6 hours. This automatically makes the location the ship emerges from jump inaccurate as well. If you emerge 4 hours later than you think, the planets (and indeed the primary), will have been moving for 4 hours, and will be in different places. Whether this matters depends on how big the 100D sphere around your target body is - if it is large, you'll still hit it and be 100D out (though with no way to predict in advance exactly where on the edge of that sphere you are). If it is small, presumably you drop out of space somewhere nearby (the rules seem to imply this, that you arrive "somewhere in the inner system").

Planets closer to their primaries orbit faster. The Earth goes about 100,000kph, so it could be up to 600000km away from where you thought it would be. Since it it 12000km in diameter the 100D sphere is 1.2 million KM radius, so you'll be fine. However, if there were a smaller planet in Earth's orbit - anything less than 6000 KM in diameter - you could miss, just because of the randomness of jump precipitation. Oops.
 
I find it interesting that you complain about wanting cited sources and making up content, but then you decide all this stuff that isn't in the rules should be normal. o.0 :P

The rules clearly state...and have stated since long before the Companion book came out... that the necessary skill for a competent professional doing a task is rating 1. You can certainly rewrite that. You definitely have to if you are going to use these rules. Players are almost certainly not going to have a navigator with the skills you want in the group if you do, because the system doesn't expect it to be necessary so it doesn't tend to produce them.

Mongoose's tendency to make task checks far harder than they should be is already a problem with other content in the Companion, most notably the fuel skimming rules.

You can assume that navigators are sitting in the starport making up plots before the ship launches, but that's not how the situation has been portrayed in the game. The Starship Operator's Guide indicates that astrogators are doing the plots during transit to the jump point. I believe the astrogation description in high guard is the same. The NORMAL time to do the task is half an hour. Taking extra time should not be the default. If that is the default, then it isn't taking EXTRA time. It is taking the normal time and task difficulties should reflect that.

I also have that opinion about additional equipment. If it is expected that doing the normal weekly tasks of the job requires an expert system and not just the ship's navigation computer and its Jump management program, then that should be part of the standard equipment on the ship. It shouldn't be an extra thing that people buy.

It is perfectly fine to decide in your campaign that you want to use the higher risk options or have different parameters for what normal skill values are. But that is on you do to do the revisions to the character generation system and elements of play that don't use the assumptions. Think about what is need for a naval astrogator or, worse, a courier. That requires an 8 to 10+ for a normal jump, before any weird jump "terrain", enemy action, battle damage, etc.

That's a different skill system than Traveller produces using the core rules.
 
There is substantial randomness around the point in time a jumping ship emerges from jump space, 1d6 hours. This automatically makes the location the ship emerges from jump inaccurate as well. If you emerge 4 hours later than you think, the planets (and indeed the primary), will have been moving for 4 hours, and will be in different places. Whether this matters depends on how big the 100D sphere around your target body is - if it is large, you'll still hit it and be 100D out (though with no way to predict in advance exactly where on the edge of that sphere you are). If it is small, presumably you drop out of space somewhere nearby (the rules seem to imply this, that you arrive "somewhere in the inner system").

Planets closer to their primaries orbit faster. The Earth goes about 100,000kph, so it could be up to 600000km away from where you thought it would be. Since it it 12000km in diameter the 100D sphere is 1.2 million KM radius, so you'll be fine. However, if there were a smaller planet in Earth's orbit - anything less than 6000 KM in diameter - you could miss, just because of the randomness of jump precipitation. Oops.
Which is why jump plots are to places in relation to a gravity well, not to a point in space. In fact, jumping to a specific point in space is described as being more difficult than jumping to a gravity well.
 
The rules clearly state...and have stated since long before the Companion book came out... that the necessary skill for a competent professional doing a task is rating 1. You can certainly rewrite that. You definitely have to if you are going to use these rules. Players are almost certainly not going to have a navigator with the skills you want in the group if you do, because the system doesn't expect it to be necessary so it doesn't tend to produce them.

The core rules state it a little differently.

If a Traveller has one or more levels in a skill (Skill 1, Skill 2, and so on.) then they are trained in that skill. Each level represents several years of experience using that skill and grants DM+1 per level to all skill checks using that skill. A Traveller with level 2–3 in a skill is a skilled professional in that field. A Traveller with level 4 or 5 is probably both well-respected and well-known in their field.

2-3 is a skilled professional Maybe 1 is a trained journeyman.

EDIT:

The example in the book.

For example, a Traveller with Medic 1 may be a paramedic or nurse, while another Traveller with Medic 2 might be a doctor. If a Traveller had Medic 3, they would likely be a very well-regarded doctor with many years of practice under their belt. A Traveller with Medic 4 or 5 would be at least world-renowned and may well be known across several star systems for their expertise.

Yeah. Trained journeyman for level 1, in my opinion.
 
How does that differ from what I said?

"A journeyman is a worker, skilled in a given building trade or craft, who has successfully completed an official apprenticeship qualification. Journeymen are considered competent and authorized to work in that field as a fully qualified employee. "

The rules also state that a Skill 1 is sufficient to fill any crew position. That's why the salary ratings are for a skill 1 crewman. Higher skills are bonus.

If you want Skill 2 or 3 to be required, you need to change the character creation system because it does not reliably produce characters with skills 2-3. Especially in niche skills like Astrogation. There's a flat out mismatch between how Mongoose rates task difficulties in a lot of these new systems and how the game system generates characters.
 
How does that differ from what I said?

"A journeyman is a worker, skilled in a given building trade or craft, who has successfully completed an official apprenticeship qualification. Journeymen are considered competent and authorized to work in that field as a fully qualified employee. "

The rules also state that a Skill 1 is sufficient to fill any crew position. That's why the salary ratings are for a skill 1 crewman. Higher skills are bonus.

If you want Skill 2 or 3 to be required, you need to change the character creation system because it does not reliably produce characters with skills 2-3. Especially in niche skills like Astrogation. There's a flat out mismatch between how Mongoose rates task difficulties in a lot of these new systems and how the game system generates characters.
Perhaps I'm being a pedant, but I'll accept that. I say it is different because you labeled skill level 1 as a competent professional and that's not quite true.

While the holder of skill level 1 can fill any crew position, the rules also say they are short of being a professional since that word is for skill levels 2-3. In my readings, a journeyman has completed an apprenticeship but still has a master or supervisor to look over what they do, so not quite a professional. The need for oversight is an important distinction.
 
Journeyman is a competent professional tradesman expected to be able to handle all normal tasks associated with the job without supervision. That's what Skill 1 means in Traveller. You should be able to do all normally expected tasks. If rank 1 isn't sufficient to do the task, it is not within the scope of normal operations. Jumping into weird jump space or targeting a barely surveyed rock in empty space or other out of the ordinary tasks. Making a jump 2 in a free trader is not such a task.

The vast majority of craftsmen you meet are journeymen.

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Journeyman is a competent professional tradesman expected to be able to handle all normal tasks associated with the job without supervision. That's what Skill 1 means in Traveller. You should be able to do all normally expected tasks. If rank 1 isn't sufficient to do the task, it is not within the scope of normal operations. Jumping into weird jump space or targeting a barely surveyed rock in empty space or other out of the ordinary tasks. Making a jump 2 in a free trader is not such a task.

The vast majority of craftsmen you meet are journeymen.

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We could argue semantics, but instead I'll point back to the rules and how they are specific that skill level 2 is professional and does not grant that to skill level 1. Call them whatever you want, but according to the rules they are not yet there.
 
Answer me this: A typical far trader has a crew of Pilot, Astrogator, Engineer. Are you saying that all of those people are expected to have a relevant skill of 2 in order to operate the ship?
 
Answer me this: A typical far trader has a crew of Pilot, Astrogator, Engineer. Are you saying that all of those people are expected to have a relevant skill of 2 in order to operate the ship?
If they don't--and they are not required to by any means--then they take their chances with someone who isn't quite up to being a recognized professional. I'd wager that a commercial ship won't have a skill level 1 as the lead in their field. That's my opinion and others are welcome to do what they want, of course, but jumping from basically untrained to professional leaves a gap. Level 1 fills that gap.

No Skill: Untrained and will suffer DM-3 when trying to use that skill.
Skill 0: Competent in using that skill but have probably had little experience in actually using it. (Smells like book learning.)
Skill 1: Trained. (But not a professional yet. Likely needs seasoning.)
Skill 2-3: Skilled professional in their field.
Skill 4-5: Both well-respected and well-known in their field.
 
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