Jump points
- Thread starter bridge26
- Start date
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Not at all.
Jump point vortex attacks were considered cheesy by some, but in 2e they are a lot harder to achieve and so are a lot less cheesy.
Jump point vortex attacks were considered cheesy by some, but in 2e they are a lot harder to achieve and so are a lot less cheesy.
BADGERCLAW
Mongoose
I am hoping that jump points are not considered cheesy.
Cause when I get my blue stars I will be using jump point attacks a lot.
plus even with the Rangers getting a 10 is going to be pretty hard.
bc
Cause when I get my blue stars I will be using jump point attacks a lot.
plus even with the Rangers getting a 10 is going to be pretty hard.
bc
thats good, i was a little worried.
i hit a gaim fleet with it yesterday, not a jump point bomb but just turning up right next to him and blowing him apart.
I came in and took out one of the queens and is carrier and took virtually no dmagae.
It seemed like the right tactic at the time to try and avoid the massive amounts of fighters.
i hit a gaim fleet with it yesterday, not a jump point bomb but just turning up right next to him and blowing him apart.
I came in and took out one of the queens and is carrier and took virtually no dmagae.
It seemed like the right tactic at the time to try and avoid the massive amounts of fighters.
Jump points as a means of gaining position are perfectly valid and appropriate. You will see some discussion in certain threads on balance saying they should not brought up so often, but that is based on the small number of scenarios that allow the use of hyperspace entry.
Jump point bombs on the other hand ARE considered cheesy by many, even with the new restrictions. Several races can get bonuses allowing an unreturnable attack. Given the very restricted canon basis for the rule many folks still feel that they are too easy to pull off.
The Blue star in particular received extensive criticism due to making cheap, highly accurate jump point bombing a reality. As the weapon is so specialised it cannot be accurately calculated into the cost of the ship.
Ripple
Jump point bombs on the other hand ARE considered cheesy by many, even with the new restrictions. Several races can get bonuses allowing an unreturnable attack. Given the very restricted canon basis for the rule many folks still feel that they are too easy to pull off.
The Blue star in particular received extensive criticism due to making cheap, highly accurate jump point bombing a reality. As the weapon is so specialised it cannot be accurately calculated into the cost of the ship.
Ripple
BADGERCLAW
Mongoose
one thing to say about that E-mines
Yes; the difficulty to perform the action does not make it less cheesy. The fact is that jump point bombs are an unavoidable, free attack, against which there is no counter. IMO that makes them cheesy, and always will be, no matter how hard they are to pull off.Ripple said:
Locutus9956
Mongoose
BADGERCLAW said:
Are a weapon on a ship that can be shot at in return and cant score crits.
Jump points are a normal tactic and key part of Babylon 5 space combat. Jump point BOMBs are a free attack that can potentially inflict massive damage and most importantly doesnt allow the 'firing' ship to be attacked in return in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER until it decides to come THROUGH the point. They ARE much harder to pull off in 2nd Edtion and using them occasionally is in my eyes perfectly acceptable.
However I, and most players I know, would consider what you seem to be suggesting, namely blue star swarm JP spamming to be cheesy and EXTREMELY unsporting. I personally would refuse to play you if you tried that. If your talking one or two JP bombs to hit a cluster of enemy ships thats one thing but if your talking about, say, 20 bluestars in a 5 point raid fleet with 10 in hyperspace all opening points all JP bombing on turn 1 I would hope you see where the problem lies! I dont so much have an issue with the JP Bomb rules as they stand but rather I have an issue with the potential for the bluestar in particular (and to a lesser extent the Torotha) to be abused, frankly the bluestar is already quite probably the single best patrol ship in the game bar none even WITHOUT JP bombing. And I play ISA myself for the record and LIKE the bluestar, but using them to JP bomb in any kind of numbers is grounds for 'bludgeon to death with rulebook (well ok probably not a 2nd ed rulebook it would just fall apart
(just kidding, the replacement versions seem fine now!))' territory in my eyes....Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I see jump point bombs as cheesy, but I'd use them on the Gaim, who are also cheesy. One cheese deserves another. 
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Lord David the Denied said:I see jump point bombs as cheesy, but I'd use them on the Gaim, who are also cheesy. One cheese deserves another.
Yes I'd agree with that exception to the above rant
lordvargon
Mongoose
Lord David the Denied said:I see jump point bombs as cheesy, but I'd use them on the Gaim, who are also cheesy. One cheese deserves another.
Actually shouldn't cheese go with whine?
Locutus9956
Mongoose
theres enough whine about the Gaim already, lets leave it as is
BADGERCLAW
Mongoose
Lord David the Denied said:I see jump point bombs as cheesy, but I'd use them on the Gaim, who are also cheesy. One cheese deserves another.
as i see E-mine as the same
if some one is just open up Jumppoints and never come THROUGH this just not rigth.
but if you come through that ok.
as for the narn they can get a lot of cheep ship with E-mine is't that the same for cheesy!
Bc
e-mine is kind of like a JP bomb with bigger blast except a JP bomb can crit but requires CQ check to do.
IMO the JP bomb now is not cheese. its hard to pull off, even the ISA can only manage 1 in 3 times to pull it off and its no longer going to get more than one ship.
IMO the JP bomb now is not cheese. its hard to pull off, even the ISA can only manage 1 in 3 times to pull it off and its no longer going to get more than one ship.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
As I said, no I dont see JP bombs IN GENERAL as cheesy but taking lots of bluestars with the sole intent of quote, Using it ALOT unquote, IS. Frankly finding one mechanic thats good and abuising it from ANY perspective is always going to be a bit unsporting (especially if it doesnt feel true to the source: For example, using wolf packs of Demos/Vorchans I dont think is cheesy as frankly thats what the centauri DO, likewise using lots of Whitestars or lots of Drazi warbirds. But doing something like 10 Saggitarius or 5 Dag'Kars just to 'carpet nuke' an area is both boring and cheap.
