Jump Bubbles

Bardicheart

Mongoose
I did a quick search and didn't see where this had been addressed.

In the past there have been discussions about whether a ship can make a jump while moving, particularly at high speed. That is, say you have a trader leaving a planet and zipping out to the 100 D limit at 2Gs. In past discussions it was assumed that the trader did not have to slow down and stop in order to jump, but could make the jump while still accelerating and carry that momentum with them when they exited jump space elsewhere. But...

You knew there was a "but" coming, right?

On p141 on my copy of the core rules, under Jump Travel we have this paragraph.
Jump travel is the only known means by which a vessel may travel
faster than the speed of light. To Jump, a ship creates a bubble of
hyperspace by means of injecting high-energy exotic particles into
an artificial singularity. The singularity is driven out of our universe,
creating a tiny parallel universe which is then blown up like a balloon
by injecting hydrogen into it. The Jump bubble is folded around the
ship, carrying it into the little pocket universe.


Given that among the various ship operations necessary to make the jump includes diverting power to the jump drive (presumably to create this singularity), and the above description of creating a "bubble" and filling it with hydrogen I have to really question whether you could do this while accelerating or moving at all.

I would definitely say any acceleration has to be cut (otherwise you'd accelerate right out of your own bubble). But I would also tend to think movement would make forming the bubble more difficult or more dangerous (might work but seems iffy to me).

Also, how long does it take to form this jump bubble, how long to "fill" it with hydrogen (also why hydrogen, I mean the more I think about the idea of floating in space in the center of a large bubble of pure hydrogen the more the word Hindenburg keeps springing to mind)? According to the rules given, diverting power and activating the jump drive takes 10-60 seconds, but is that enough time to fill a bubble large enough to contain a 200 dT ship with hydrogen? What about a 400dT ship, much less a 200,000 dT super freighter or a 500,000 dT dreadnaught.

What happens if someone fires a missile or laser or particle beam at that hydrogen bubble before you can actually jump (while you are filling it)? Or if you return fire? Wouldn't that make attempting a jump in combat virtually impossible... if not potentially fatal (how much damage does being in the middle of a big ball of flaming hydrogen do to a ship?)?

Given the above points, wouldn't the trader from my first example would have to accelerate half way to the 100 D limit, then decelerate the other half to come to a stop. Spend 10-60 seconds diverting power and activating the jump drive. Spend an unknown amount of time (1-6 minutes?) filling the jump bubble with hydrogen as it forms until it is large enough to enter jump space... only then does the ship actually jump. During this time, being shot at or shooting at someone would be really BAD and would also make jumping impossible since igniting the hydrogen would collapse the bubble (on second thought, can you ignite pure hydrogen in space? Wouldn't you need an oxidizer? Of course a missile explosion might still be enough to collapse the bubble just by displacing enough hydrogen whether it ignites or not). Any maneuvering (course changes) or acceleration would automatically cause the jump to fail. Being in motion might not, assuming constant speed and direction the bubble would move along with you; but, would this affect the singularity you are forming and how it interacts with the fabric of space to create this "bubble universe"? Don't know, like I said, sounds iffy to me that you could be moving while doing that but since its all science fiction that part could be whatever you want I suppose.

This would also affect naval tactics for combat, patrols and system invasions.

Thoughts?
 
Hydrogen needs oxygen (or an oxidizer) to burn, pure hydrogen won't; but a nice byproduct of burning hydrogen and oxygen is water.
 
The bubble isn't a physical object per se as a soap bubble. It's a three dimensional field centered inside the vessel and extending out moving relative to the vessel and holding the hydrogen in place. It can be hard to describe but this field 'draws' the vessel into a hyper universe without effecting the speed, inertia and vector though the field itself is manipulated to vector the ship to the destination as programmed into astrogation. When you pop out, you will still have the speed and direction from the launch point. Even if you shut your engine down at jump you still retain the velocity and direction at that moment.

One big reason to slow down or even stop before jumping you don't know what's in the region of the destination you enter. Space is big but there's still stuff out there. You won't have much reaction time if you come screaming out of the tunnel blind plus you might not be aiming toward your final destination.
 
Conservation of Momentum could explain why the vector of the ship/jump bubble is maintained; and that it is not allowed to change or the bubble ruptures.
 
I have a house rule that requires a ship to be stationary (more or less) relative to the star in order to jump without additional misjump chance.
 
dragoner said:
IIRC, our solar system is moving at 828,000 km/hr; so by stationary ... ?

... relative to the star in the system... In reality the rule is, relative to the average vector of the entire mass of the system. Part of the complex jump calculations.
 
sideranautae said:
dragoner said:
IIRC, our solar system is moving at 828,000 km/hr; so by stationary ... ?

... relative to the star in the system... In reality the rule is, relative to the average vector of the entire mass of the system. Part of the complex jump calculations.

Cool.

It could all still get crazy with the difference in vector between stars. :)
 
dragoner said:
sideranautae said:
dragoner said:
IIRC, our solar system is moving at 828,000 km/hr; so by stationary ... ?

... relative to the star in the system... In reality the rule is, relative to the average vector of the entire mass of the system. Part of the complex jump calculations.

Cool.

It could all still get crazy with the difference in vector between stars. :)

Yes indeed. Only properly equipped (read research, Scout & Fleet) ships willingly jump in and out of "empty hexes" for that reason.

It is just about impossible (as can be imagined) to get the average vector exactly calculated. Hence sometimes jumping randomly in the inner system (see jump rules in MBR). Anyway, that's how I explain it to players.
 
"It could all still get crazy with the difference in vector between stars"

Hence the large, complex ship computers, the expensive software and those pesky can't jump until you make the astrogation roll.
 
Reynard said:
"It could all still get crazy with the difference in vector between stars"

Hence the large, complex ship computers, the expensive software and those pesky can't jump until you make the astrogation roll.

With even the largest computers you still need accurate input. Some way to accurately find & measure all those minute gravitic forces. From what the MRB has for the average ship, the sensors aren't there. At least for making jumps without pre-surveyed data available.
 
Reynard said:
"It could all still get crazy with the difference in vector between stars"

Hence the large, complex ship computers, the expensive software and those pesky can't jump until you make the astrogation roll.

Exactly. 8)
 
sideranautae said:
Yes indeed. Only properly equipped (read research, Scout & Fleet) ships willingly jump in and out of "empty hexes" for that reason.

It is just about impossible (as can be imagined) to get the average vector exactly calculated. Hence sometimes jumping randomly in the inner system (see jump rules in MBR). Anyway, that's how I explain it to players.

Yes, it is a good explanation, as well as what Reynard wrote, for the complexity of the task and computer sizes, etc.. Another good job (or adventure) for Scout Survey missions keeping the stellar atlases up to date.
 
In my videos, this subject has come up. I sometimes have the bubble fixed/projected from a point on the ship, so the ship doesn't touch the edge of the bubble. Other times, I've had ships drifting inside their bubbles. Most players will be in character and won't be thinking about such details while in jump. Depends on what's interesting at the time, since we're in a sandbox.
 
ShawnDriscoll said:
Most players will be in character and won't be thinking about such details while in jump.

It's more about getting INTO Jump Space in the first place rather than staring at the jump bubble once in. Can they Jump while being perused and the like or, do they have to slow and endanger themselves.

I don't see how being "in character" would obviate the need to consider such vital decisions.
 
This is why the lone scout in a scout ship isn't so pretty when there's trouble. Being engaged in hostile actions makes multitasking your skills far less efficient than a full crew. A pilot can be evading while a gunner provides return fire so the astrogator can plot the course and the engineer initiates jump.

If pursuit means staying away from your enemy or die then you may well have to take a chance on the other end of the jump. In all, once you punch the Big Red jump button, you have a week undisturbed to sort things out.
 
sideranautae said:
I don't see how being "in character" would obviate the need to consider such vital decisions.

In-characters are not saying, "But what about our ship's jump bubble?" while being perused by ships before going into jump.
 
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