Jelisi Command destroyer 6000dt

[wbnc]

6000 ton "Lord Jelisi" Command Ship

The Lord Jelisi class command Ship is designed to form the core of a System Defense, or maneuver Squadron. Fitted with heavy armor, powerful weapons, and advanced sensors the ship can direct and support an entire squadron of Destroyers, Frigates, and corvettes, providing lethal fire support for the smaller vessels.

The Presence of a command ship in a system, or as part of a mobile force is often enough to dissuade lighter vessels, and deal a lethal blow to any formation that des not break off contact before the Ship enters effective range of it's heavy weapons. For this reason Command vessels are usually held in reserve acting as a mobile command center until a high value target, or threat is detected by its scouting force.

Usually commanded by a senior captain, with a commodore, or Admiral aboard to coordinate squadron operations, a command ship maintains a high degree of alert when traveling through unstable areas, and is often escorted by a pair of destroyers and several corvettes to deal with any attempt to disable, or destroy the command ship, and eliminate the officers aboard it.

A Jelise Class command ship is often beyond the finances of smaller armed forces. It is sometimes the flagship of a small fleet employed by Nobles, and Corporations as reserve forces for the Imperial fleet. These vessels are never seen on the open market due to their cost, and Imperial oversight of their manufacture and sell.





The Command ship Jelisi, first of its class Is currently deployed to the Jewel Sector of the Spinward Marches. As part of a rapid reaction force deployed by the Fleet to conduct Show of forces operations and train Sector Fleet crewmen on the systems of the vessel. It has conducted several punitive operations against armed insurgents, criminals and Sword Vargr raiders operating on the fringes of Imperial Space.

The Jelisi Class is not intended to engage heavier ships, in direct combat. Its weapons are optimized to deal with destroyers, frigates, and corvettes as well as improvised warships lighter than 2000 displacement tons. Its heavy weapons can shred smaller vessels, and it's heavy armor gives it excellent protection against lasers, missiles, and particle beams. This allows it to close to the effective range of it's railguns, and rake enemy vessels with salvos of heavy projectiles.

Since it's main role is to coordinate smaller vessels, and engage with the support of several other vessels, the Jelisi class is a serious threat to any renegade, or criminal force it encounters. Only a large well armed pirate or renegade force is capable of posing a threat to a Jelisi led flotilla.



A total of fifteen Jelisi Class Vessels are due to be deployed to enhance the combat effectiveness of destroyer squadrons operating with the Fleet, and join system defense forces near key worlds in the Sector.

Texture based on Nano-Honeycomb by blakegedye.deviantart.com/


Alright then, well the headaches trying to learn blender are not any better. But I think I am getting the hang of it. The textures are sort of wonky, but I liked the look.

The model was the least jumbled of any I have pieced together so far, and looks pretty good to me.

an alternate color scheme

 

[Nerhesi]

I like it. Two small questions:

Is it TL18? Because you have 18 armour which requires TL 18. Anti-matter weaponry, maybe Jump 7, Black and White Globes, etc etc and so on would be in by then so perhaps you need an overhaul, however, I feel it is just an oversight that the armor is that high correct?

Second question:

Pulse Lasers/Beam Lasers/Sandcasters - waste of space if you're going for efficiency. Definitely use either 2xplasma on triple turrets or 1 x particle beam. You lose point defence, but you dont need it with max armour (except maybe vs torpedos, so perhaps leave 8 triple beam lasers)

 

[dragoner]

Very nice!

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

You do better than me with Blender.

 

[wbnc]

I like it. Two small questions:

Is it TL18? Because you have 18 armour which requires TL 18. Anti-matter weaponry, maybe Jump 7, Black and White Globes, etc etc and so on would be in by then so perhaps you need an overhaul, however, I feel it is just an oversight that the armor is that high correct?

Second question:

Pulse Lasers/Beam Lasers/Sandcasters - waste of space if you're going for efficiency. Definitely use either 2xplasma on triple turrets or 1 x particle beam. You lose point defence, but you dont need it with max armour (except maybe vs torpedos, so perhaps leave 8 triple beam lasers)

wasn't going for max efficiency, it's meant to provide support for smaller vessels. So I gave it a lots of turrets to take out fighters, and small craft that might be going after more vulnerable ships> I mentioned it's not meant to go toe to toe with larger ships, but be the core of a flotilla, providing support fire, which includes sniping small craft off of other vessels. it's bays and other weapons are strong enough to knock chunks out of anything smaller and less well armored...or at least get their attention.

I think that 18 was an oversight on my part....going back and checking the other ships based on the same hull to make sure they are all up to spec.

 

[Condottiere]

With the current mechanics, I do think that destroyers should be in the five to seven and a half kay range.

Offensive armament may be used more to finish off a damaged ship, or to keep unfriendlies at a healthy distance while you prepare transition.

 

[phavoc]

Interesting. Is it a one-off command variant? I do see your command bridge, but flag-ship style vessels typically have additional quarters and other amenities for the flag officer and his staff (usually higher ranked people too, so that means maybe LT or Ensigns and ratings share a room). Though I know many players don't go into that sort of detail. There should also be more ratings to run the flotilla data center. You have the command staff, but not enough underlings listed, unless they are hiding in plain site. Not that you need a LOT of them, but having done some Corps-level exercises I can tell you from experience that the officers don't normally do much except look at things and give orders. And drink coffee. Maybe someone who has experienced what it's like in a navy can offer a different perspective.

The armor factor seems awfully high for a destroyer-class ships. Destroyers are typically fast escorts, lightly armed and able to take on or run down most things smaller than them. Having an armor rating a quarter of what is listed seems more in line with the general concept of a destroyer. Though your designs may be standard with large amounts of armor.

 

[wbnc]

Interesting. Is it a one-off command variant? I do see your command bridge, but flag-ship style vessels typically have additional quarters and other amenities for the flag officer and his staff (usually higher ranked people too, so that means maybe LT or Ensigns and ratings share a room). Though I know many players don't go into that sort of detail. There should also be more ratings to run the flotilla data center. You have the command staff, but not enough underlings listed, unless they are hiding in plain site. Not that you need a LOT of them, but having done some Corps-level exercises I can tell you from experience that the officers don't normally do much except look at things and give orders. And drink coffee. Maybe someone who has experienced what it's like in a navy can offer a different perspective.

The armor factor seems awfully high for a destroyer-class ships. Destroyers are typically fast escorts, lightly armed and able to take on or run down most things smaller than them. Having an armor rating a quarter of what is listed seems more in line with the general concept of a destroyer. Though your designs may be standard with large amounts of armor.

I don't have any experience with anything higher up the food chain than squad/flight level command structures. So I had to make a best guess at what sort of command team you would need for a six to eight ship grouping

I figured
1 Force commander
1 adjutant/assistant for force commander
2 subordinate commanders
communications
Operations

looking at this months later, I can see this is a bit thin on manpower ... good call.

what would you suggest.

I am thinking one junior officer, and three assistants per officer.
that's an additional 24 persons for the command section.

The armor is being reworked since I goofed on it...but this version has twice the armor of the ship it's based off of. Mostly due to the fact that a command ship is going to draw a lot of unfriendly attention.

The heavier armor is there to prevent the ship from being shot out for under the staff..which would seriously impact the flotilla's combat effectiveness....and loose a senior captain or commodore...never something anyone wants to report to a fleet commander.

Dropping the extra armor would free up tonnage to fit in some tweaks suggested, so I will be looking at that closely.

 

[phavoc]

As far as the number of personnel goes, a lot depends on how many ships you are wanting your command destroyer to control. The more ships that it might control, the larger your command staff to support your flotilla commander.

Let's go with 10 ships as your example fleet size. That's five two-ship divisions to command. You could have a small craft commander, but most likely that would be the responsibility of your small craft carrier. Ten ships is a lot to keep track of, with communications and everything. Plus your command staff will have people tasked with certain leadership positions for the fleet.

So...

Flotilla Commander
2nd in Command
4-6 officers (tasks like fleet defense, anti-small craft protection, etc...things that you'll want a fleet to coordinate with)
2-4 ensigns (to do the scut officer work the others don't want to do, and the little things like be watch officer, junior comms officer, etc).
Senior rating (or two)
8-10 ratings who do most of the work.

That's 17-23 people. The Flotilla commander will have a designated person to take care of him, and the flag staff may even have their own wardroom, own support staff to cook/clean/etc.

So lets say 30 people to be safe. You'd need probably 20 staterooms for it all.

That would be modeling it like a real navy might run it. It could easily go up or down, depending on your desires, but this is something that would be sufficient in the real world to control a small group of ships in combat.

Ideally you don't want your command ship to be easily identifiable from the regular destroyer class. That way you can blend in and your enemy can't easily determine which ship they should concentrate their fire upon to take out the commander and sow confusion. So one way to address that is to have your command ship have the same armaments, but take from the ammunition side so that it can't fire as long, but when it does it can fire just as heavy.

Something else to think about is that a command ship will typically have a larger hangar and more small craft to accomodate the need for more trips to the other ships in the fleet. So that's more armor or systems you'd need to re-work to get more out of it.

Anyways, that's just one way to look at it. Some people like to play the min/max game and that's ok too. Really just depends on personal preferences.

 

[wbnc]

As far as the number of personnel goes, a lot depends on how many ships you are wanting your command destroyer to control. The more ships that it might control, the larger your command staff to support your flotilla commander.

Let's go with 10 ships as your example fleet size. That's five two-ship divisions to command. You could have a small craft commander, but most likely that would be the responsibility of your small craft carrier. Ten ships is a lot to keep track of, with communications and everything. Plus your command staff will have people tasked with certain leadership positions for the fleet.

So...

Flotilla Commander
2nd in Command
4-6 officers (tasks like fleet defense, anti-small craft protection, etc...things that you'll want a fleet to coordinate with)
2-4 ensigns (to do the scut officer work the others don't want to do, and the little things like be watch officer, junior comms officer, etc).
Senior rating (or two)
8-10 ratings who do most of the work.

That's 17-23 people. The Flotilla commander will have a designated person to take care of him, and the flag staff may even have their own wardroom, own support staff to cook/clean/etc.

So lets say 30 people to be safe. You'd need probably 20 staterooms for it all.

That would be modeling it like a real navy might run it. It could easily go up or down, depending on your desires, but this is something that would be sufficient in the real world to control a small group of ships in combat.

Ideally you don't want your command ship to be easily identifiable from the regular destroyer class. That way you can blend in and your enemy can't easily determine which ship they should concentrate their fire upon to take out the commander and sow confusion. So one way to address that is to have your command ship have the same armaments, but take from the ammunition side so that it can't fire as long, but when it does it can fire just as heavy.

Something else to think about is that a command ship will typically have a larger hangar and more small craft to accomodate the need for more trips to the other ships in the fleet. So that's more armor or systems you'd need to re-work to get more out of it.

Anyways, that's just one way to look at it. Some people like to play the min/max game and that's ok too. Really just depends on personal preferences.

The way I see the ship being deployed is that would have three sections under its command.

each section has a 5000 destroyer,two or three 1000-2000 ton frigates, and another four to five 600-800 ton corvettes under it's control. Anoteher section would be assigned as escort/ reserve section for the command ship.

What my original plan was is to suggest that the command Ship act as a mobile command base for patrols over several systems with corvettes doing the scouting work, along side attached 100 ton military scouts....while frigates and destroyers set in systems that needed a stronger force to detect/deter unfriendly vessels.

If n overwhelming force appeared the section that made first contact would jump back to the location of the command ship, scouts would be dispatched to the other sections and their next higher command unit....the flotilla commander had the option of dealing directly with a threat, or situation using his own ships Or Alternately holding for reinforcements before committing to a response.

if the flotilla was part of a feet operation it would be a screening, harassing force that had some ability to act independently of the fleet...

 

[phavoc]

In that case you would need to up the number of personnel to run your command center 24/7. Probably at least by a 1/3rd, maybe more. Depends on bureaucratic you want to make it. And you'd have multiple command areas, the first line would be receiving the information and determining whether or not it was important. That's one of the jobs of a junior officer is to learn what is important to pass along to avoid overloading your commander with extraneous data.

You'd probably also need to increase your NCO staff to both cover the additional ratings taking the messages, etc, plus your NCO's would add seasoning to your lower-ranked junior officers. I always found it funny to see our butterbars (2nd LT) thinking they knew everything when talking to senior NCO's, especially our first sergeant, who would just smile and explain to them why they were wrong. I never saw an LT do it more than once after the company commander explained to the LT how the military really worked, and who usually makes the correct decisions.

 

[Condottiere]

Establishing a doctrine will tell you how this all interacts.

In my revisioning of the Solomani Navy, command ships are there to coordinate more the Home Guard units within the overall Naval command framework.

 

[wbnc]

In that case you would need to up the number of personnel to run your command center 24/7. Probably at least by a 1/3rd, maybe more. Depends on bureaucratic you want to make it. And you'd have multiple command areas, the first line would be receiving the information and determining whether or not it was important. That's one of the jobs of a junior officer is to learn what is important to pass along to avoid overloading your commander with extraneous data.

You'd probably also need to increase your NCO staff to both cover the additional ratings taking the messages, etc, plus your NCO's would add seasoning to your lower-ranked junior officers. I always found it funny to see our butterbars (2nd LT) thinking they knew everything when talking to senior NCO's, especially our first sergeant, who would just smile and explain to them why they were wrong. I never saw an LT do it more than once after the company commander explained to the LT how the military really worked, and who usually makes the correct decisions.

Sounds about reasonable. I dnt see the commander reading all the stuff that hits the screeners desk


I am trying to cobble together a structure to fleets and squadrons, how man primary ships, how many escorts, what sort of auxiliaries, etc..and trying t use whats already in print to base it off of...that's a lotttt of reading to do.

 

[phavoc]

I had played around with creating different-sized flag-bridge packages, that included the size of the flag bridge, the required personnel to man them as well as the attendant tonnage for the bridge and secondary fittings (staterooms, mess, etc). I came up with three sizes for what they were supposed to be commanding.

It's funny how small/medium/large permeates so many ideas...

 

[wbnc]

I had played around with creating different-sized flag-bridge packages, that included the size of the flag bridge, the required personnel to man them as well as the attendant tonnage for the bridge and secondary fittings (staterooms, mess, etc). I came up with three sizes for what they were supposed to be commanding.

It's funny how small/medium/large permeates so many ideas...

It makes it easier to organize things...

and if your building dozens of ships on the same floor plans it makes it easy to order part....I need fifty units, for a bloc III command area...

One job I had was filling orders for entire ew stores everything from computers, to counters, to wing nuts, and cable ties....To speed things up they had the entire system broken down into various set up, with every component and item needed pre-counted and set up for the installation crews...

we knew what parts to ship on what days, and in which order...if the installation crew was on schedule they got their parts in the order they needed at the time they needed....saved a lot of time and money...so I can see that sort of system evolving at big shipyards

Sort of fits into the standard hull design theme....

 

[Jame Rowe]

I like it other than the VERY low fuel endurance (fuel is misspelled in your chart by the way).

As always I suggest using the alternate fuel rules from S&P 79. It'll increase endurance by a lot.

 

[wbnc]

I like it other than the VERY low fuel endurance (fuel is misspelled in your chart by the way).

As always I suggest using the alternate fuel rules from S&P 79. It'll increase endurance by a lot.

Thanks for the feed back.

I will probably tweak the design a bit more based on feedback, and to correct a tiny mistake on my part....and fix those bloody typos.