Italian girlfriend

[DM]

I did study it at uni

If you saw some of the candidates I've had the "pleasure"** of interviewing for jobs over the last few years you wouldn't use that as an endoresment these days

NOT that I'm implaying anything by that I hasten to add, just observing that recent uni graduates form some courses that I have encountered recently seem to have got their degrees simply by turning up and falling asleep.

**(no, really they were hilarious!)

 

[Jellicoe]

Don't assume I'm ignorant of the Kriegsmarine, luftwaffe and Wehrmacht's opinions on Sealion, I did study it at uni :wink:

It is fairly well known that had the luftwaffe not switched to city bombing from the airfields that fighter command was at breaking point. Dr Aryck Nusbacher said that had germany attacked the radar stations they'd have won but they ignored them. Sure these are if's but not all of them are big if's.

I don't assume that. Having looked at a lot of the existing literature, been asked a lot of questions about this and sampled material in the German archives about this I would merely suggest that there is more to this that it seems. As with most things as you start picking away and examining the sources critically different pictures emerge. The last word on Sealion has not been said so if anyone wants to go an write a good account of this I'll read it. I teach this at uni on occasion.
:wink:
I don't fundamentally disagree with you either.

 

[chaos0xomega]

you both mention barges and the unlikely success of a German invasion, Sealion was only a bluff anyway, Germany couldn't realistically mount an invasion, though yes I do disagree with you, the destroyers alone weren't enough, Germany felt they could be brushed aside, it was the arrival of the Home Fleet they feared. They planned to mine the channel heavily on both flanks of their invasion force

Sealion was hardly a bluff, Hitler was dead serious, and his generals were dead scared.

Wehrmacht's

I hate to be all 'proper' and whatnot, but Wehrmacht is the incorrect terminology. The German army(the land division) is the Heer's. Wehrmacht refers to the combined forces of the Luftwaffe, Heer's, and Kriegsmarine(and I suppose Waffen-SS).

 

[emperorpenguin]

you both mention barges and the unlikely success of a German invasion, Sealion was only a bluff anyway, Germany couldn't realistically mount an invasion, though yes I do disagree with you, the destroyers alone weren't enough, Germany felt they could be brushed aside, it was the arrival of the Home Fleet they feared. They planned to mine the channel heavily on both flanks of their invasion force

Sealion was hardly a bluff, Hitler was dead serious, and his generals were dead scared.

Wehrmacht's

I hate to be all 'proper' and whatnot, but Wehrmacht is the incorrect terminology. The German army(the land division) is the Heer's. Wehrmacht refers to the combined forces of the Luftwaffe, Heer's, and Kriegsmarine(and I suppose Waffen-SS).

you are right on point 2 :wink: I knew it as soon as I posted it but I grew up using the term Wehrmacht, old habits and all that....

Point 1 Hitler wanted to be serious but his Kriegsmarine told him that the barges weren't up to the task.
A number of authors have written books cocncluding that Sealion was a bluff to force Britain to accept peace. Field Marshal Von Rundstedt said after the war that Sealion was a bluff too.

 

[emperorpenguin]

There's a few good quotes here which give you Hitler's view that Britain was a force for good and potential ally. He once said to the Hungarian ambassador "I will crush France but Britain I have no quarrel with".

He didn't want to invade Britain and destroy the Empire which he saw only benefitting Japan and the USA

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWsealoin.htm

 

[chaos0xomega]

I still don't believe it was a bluff at all. From everything I have read, Hitler was very serious about going through with the operation, but backed out simply because all of his generals and admirals were telling him that it couldn't be done, and with so many against him, he couldn't go through with the operation unless he was sure that victory was within reach. It could have been done though, if Hitler had put more resources into more conventional weapons. the Dora/Schwerer Gustav, the V1, V2, and V3, etc., no matter how cool they were, was a huge waste of resources and marks, that could have gone towards a better bomber program, completing the GZ, or building a proper landing craft for the invasion.

 

[Hugbiel]

They do if the female species influence the wargamer in writing rules in a certain direction. Come on, the French??? Only real thing they ever did was having the Jean Bart, with only one turret operational AND stranded on a bank outside Algiers firing some rounds at an anglo-american invasion force...

It wasn't Algeria, it was Moroco at Casablanca

We have also put fire a bigger and most modern fleet than every one who hasn't signed the Washigton treaty can build, when it come that ship cannot fire on the german's tank cause they hidding in our base.

Wait a minute please, I must call my officer. Would you like a coffee ?... That's noise ? It's the coffe machine.

 

[DM]

The Dakar expedition is also an interesting action to fight out (with French on both sides!)

Of course there are no Iowas or Yamatos involved so I doubt anyone would be interested

 

[BuShips]

As far as Operation Sealion, Hitler messed up on his timing. If he would have waited about half a century, he could have used the Chunnel. :wink:

 

[DM]

Indeed, but as any experienced Chunnel user knows, lightning progress through France turns to a snail's pace crawl once you get to the other side. And with a likely points failure at the curiously named Ashford International we'd have had, ooh, several weeks before he got anywhere near London

 

[emperorpenguin]

Indeed, but as any experienced Chunnel user knows, lightning progress through France turns to a snail's pace crawl once you get to the other side. And with a likely points failure at the curiously named Ashford International we'd have had, ooh, several weeks before he got anywhere near London

:lol: very true, you travel by rail in France and it is fantastic, then you get to England and it's like a 3rd world country in comparison!