Is anything rotten in the state of Zingara?

Etepete

Mongoose
Is there an upcoming Zingara sourcebook, and if so, how long would I have to wait?

In the meantime, I'm trying to piece together what scraps of background I need for my campaign. I'd be delighted for second thoughts on the below:

* A generation back, before the last king, there was a rebellion in the eastern provinces, just above where the road of kings cuts the border to argos. This area, called Cavagria, is the home of a community of sheepherding borderers, inspired by the basques. Backed by some noble families they backed the heir of a deviant branch of the royal family, just a boy at the time, and embraced a simplistic, animistic and monotheisitc mitraism, as opposed to the official religion, which is polytheistic with a Mitra as a King of Gods. The alliance was betrayed and the young prince murdered. Since, those noble families who betrayed the alliance and backed the last king have been hounding and killing their former coconspirers.

* I'm basing Kordova off an inverted map of Constantinople. This gives the city three walls. The middle one is restored Acheronian. The city is divided into blocks and zones of interests controlled by noble families from their fortified towers, who dominate the skyline. Murder and aristocratic gang warfare in the streets is commonplace. Think Romeo and Julia. The pretendent who controls the palace at the moment is backed by several aristocratic alliances and a monastic order that upholds the current polytheistic religion, but does not control the capital, and cannot move about freely. Parts of the city are totally barricaded, but everywhere commerce goes on despite the undending conflicts.

* The Zingaran countryside down in the river valley is an unending expanse of fields of yellow grain and lush olive grooves. The economy is based on manors rather than villages, at least in the south. At the moment many of these aristocratic strongholds hold high princes and important political players fled from the assassin-filled capital.

* Zingaran Polytheistic Mithraism isn't quite fleshed out yet. Is there any official info from REH himself or Mongoose at all? Left to my own devices I'll include Tauro, a manly and brave bull-god who used to be leader of the pantheon, and Kybala the Mother, fertility-godess worshiped in the form of little fat, black statue-idols. Maybe some Pan-like divinty as well.
 
Etepete said:
Is there an upcoming Zingara sourcebook?

Yes.

Etepete said:
and if so, how long would I have to wait?

A while.

Etepete said:
* Zingaran Polytheistic Mithraism isn't quite fleshed out yet. Is there any official info from REH himself or Mongoose at all?

It will be quite fleshed out by the time I get done with it.

As for the map, if you find a copy of the Sphere edition of Karl Edward Wagner's The Road of Kings, it has a map of Kordava in it. The Ace edition of the book does not have this map.
 
VincentDarlage said:
As for the map, if you find a copy of the Sphere edition of Karl Edward Wagner's The Road of Kings, it has a map of Kordava in it. The Ace edition of the book does not have this map.
Will you base your descriptions upon that map?
 
VincentDarlage said:
Etepete said:
Is there an upcoming Zingara sourcebook?

Yes.

Etepete said:
and if so, how long would I have to wait?

A while.

Etepete said:
* Zingaran Polytheistic Mithraism isn't quite fleshed out yet. Is there any official info from REH himself or Mongoose at all?

It will be quite fleshed out by the time I get done with it.

As for the map, if you find a copy of the Sphere edition of Karl Edward Wagner's The Road of Kings, it has a map of Kordava in it. The Ace edition of the book does not have this map.

Right, thanks for the straight answers :) ...of course, this puts me in quite a position trying since I'd like to keep my Zingara coherent with the official stuff. You wouldn't have date to that "a while" I suppose....

Any pointers as to how far off I am of what's gonna go into the sourcebook would be tremendously helpful for my campaign. I know it's asking alot, but any snippets would be worth their weight in gold...

As for the religion: is it gonna be exclusive: as in a definitie account of what goes into the faith, or inclusive, leavin some room for each and everyones creative geniuses to put in their own divinites? I'd hate leaving good old Tavro out... :p
 
Etepete said:
Right, thanks for the straight answers :) ...of course, this puts me in quite a position trying since I'd like to keep my Zingara coherent with the official stuff. You wouldn't have date to that "a while" I suppose....

Nope. Right now I am planning to begin writing it in a few weeks (after I finish Stygia, which is in its final stages of drafting). Then it will take me a month or two of actual research/writing, then it will go to Mongoose for playtesting, editing, layout, artwork, etc. I honestly have no idea when it will be available. Mongoose could also change those plans if they decide they want another sourcebook first.

Etepete said:
Any pointers as to how far off I am of what's gonna go into the sourcebook would be tremendously helpful for my campaign. I know it's asking alot, but any snippets would be worth their weight in gold...

In all honesty, do what you are wanting to do with it. I haven't even begun planning the book beyond an extremely basic outline.

Etepete said:
As for the religion: is it gonna be exclusive: as in a definitie account of what goes into the faith, or inclusive, leavin some room for each and everyones creative geniuses to put in their own divinites? I'd hate leaving good old Tavro out... :p

I don't know yet. I haven't done any research on Zingara's religious beliefs since I wrote The Road of Kings supplement. Just as an off-the-top-of-my-head opinion, the religion will probably be fairly flexible.
 
Right, I'll not be able to hold my players off till spring, which seems to be the earliest possible date, so I'll just do Zingara my own way, and try and fit everything as neatly as possible when the good stuff comes out. Thanks for the info vincent: love it when you writers are being helpful like that. :)

Anybody else playing in Zingara at the moment? I'd love to hear how other gm:s are handling this place...
 
Yeah, me. I have had three different campaigns that passed through Zingara. I usually based it off a mythical Spanish style of fuedalism. More laid back but tempermental. Threw in some flavour from Dumas [author of The Three Musketeers and The Man in the Iron Mask] for the swashbuckling aspect of things. I just used Spanish names instead. 8)

For the most detailed description of Zingara, try the appropiately named pastiche Conan and the Road of Kings. I believe the name of the author was Wagner, but not 100% sure. It is one of my favourites because it deviates from the Conan formula enough to be fresh and unpredicatable in parts and has a truly tragic ending regarding the best of intentions. I have heard a lot of die-hard Conan fans dislike for the same reason.

Raven
 
Raven Blackwell said:
For the most detailed description of Zingara, try the appropiately named pastiche Conan and the Road of Kings. I believe the name of the author was Wagner, but not 100% sure.

It was by Karl Edward Wagner and I mentioned the book and the author in the second post of this thread. The Sphere edition of the book has a beautiful map of Kordava.
 
In the GURPS Conan is a short description of all novels, and it says that Wagener`s Road of Kings does not realy fit in the Conan Saga. Too much changes to Howard or something.... I did`nt read it, so can somebody tell us what`s wrong with the book?
 
Teutonic said:
In the GURPS Conan is a short description of all novels, and it says that Wagener`s Road of Kings does not realy fit in the Conan Saga. Too much changes to Howard or something.... I did`nt read it, so can somebody tell us what`s wrong with the book?

It felt... ummm, too modern IMHO. A lot of political blah-blah-blah about feudalism, revolutions and such. I also didn't like the idea of a 'city' under Kordava.
 
VincentDarlage said:
The King said:
Will you base your descriptions upon that map?

Probably, but I haven't really decided yet. Do you have an argument/preference for one way or the other?
Well I didn't read the Road of Kings pastiche yet. The only description I have of Kordava is from Conan the Buccanner by Lin Carter. I can't remember anything well by the royal palace. The novel was so badly written though that I don't believe it suitable for the game (espacially when Thoth Amon is given one of the only 3 books of Skelos existing on earth and says he would have prefered the serpent crown that in theory should not be used by human - following a Lovecraftian theory).

Thus I believe you could imagine very well the city. For court intrigues though The treasure of Tranicos (by de Camp) would make for a really good complement to the Hour of the Dragon.

This brings me to this evidence:
- Though Argos and Zingara were constantly at war (propably on a low level of intensity) Zingara could never unify its barons to win a decisive battle (they feared too much by going to war that their neighbours would take their castles and conquer their lands).
- If Zingara is in a permanent state of civil war and if Messantia can afford to have no protective walls, then I assume that Argos has a small army (being more a merchant state) but a very well organized network of spies, informers and trouble-makers in Zingara, probably using its funds to feed the Zingaran civil war by bribing the barons.
 
Teutonic said:
In the GURPS Conan is a short description of all novels, and it says that Wagener`s Road of Kings does not realy fit in the Conan Saga. Too much changes to Howard or something.... I did`nt read it, so can somebody tell us what`s wrong with the book?

I think that had more to do with Wagner and L. Sprague de Camp not getting along than anything with the story actually (Wagner was editing a series of Howard only Conan texts, which de Camp was fighting in court). Many Conan fans seem to like the Wagner pastiche, so I think de Camp was just slamming Wagner for personal reasons. The pastiche certainly didn't have any more discrepencies with Howard than many of the other pastiches which were accepted by de Camp, and had far less than some.
 
VincentDarlage said:
It was by Karl Edward Wagner and I mentioned the book and the author in the second post of this thread. The Sphere edition of the book has a beautiful map of Kordava.

Whoops- I must have skimmed that post and thought you were refering to your sourcebook by the same name because you dropped the Conan and... portion of the title. How rare is that Sphere edition and is there a digital version of the map on the net you know of? I'd love to expand Zingara- I have an idea for a campaign set around an Aquilonia-Zingara war near the end of Conan's reign as king.

How true Wagner's vision of Zingara is to REH's aside, I have to admit I think it was one of the best written pastiches in terms of writing style, characterization and plotting.

And as for a political subtext being too modern, I heard it once said that among the oldest written works from ancient semi-democratic Greece was a complaint about politics and influence. So long as there has been power in any form, humanity has been debating how it will be used. I believe that Wagner and REH were right- all good intentions aside, it always falls down to militarstic "might makes right" trampling over romantic ideals. I'm not saying it is a good thing- just what is.

Raven
 
A question to Vincent, do you have any idea if you will include or not rapiers in the Zingara sourcebook? I have no opinion either way, but I always envisioned Zingarans using rapiers rather than arming swords, but that´s just me.
 
MGBM said:
A question to Vincent, do you have any idea if you will include or not rapiers in the Zingara sourcebook? I have no opinion either way, but I always envisioned Zingarans using rapiers rather than arming swords, but that´s just me.
Rapiers are good for nobles and duels but unsuitable to fight in a large (civil) war.
 
I really like the idea with swords instead of rapiers. Swords make Zingarans something more than just another Zorro-Musketeer nation.
 
Moreover the style of fighting with a sword is completty different than fighting with a rapier because the latter is more with finesse. How would you make a parade with a (light) rapier against a heavier sword?
I can't imagine Conan fighting with such a blade.
 
The King said:
MGBM said:
A question to Vincent, do you have any idea if you will include or not rapiers in the Zingara sourcebook? I have no opinion either way, but I always envisioned Zingarans using rapiers rather than arming swords, but that´s just me.
Rapiers are good for nobles and duels but unsuitable to fight in a large (civil) war.

But I get the impression that the Zingaran regular civil wars/current civil war needn't be much more than assorted aristocratic family feuds and regionalistic partisan warfare, and in the former i'd feel it's very true to form to let them battle it out with light duelling weaponry. That would be the arming sword for me though. In the rough-hewn, brutal and visceral world of Conan such dainty things as rapiers cannot prevail!!!
 
The King said:
Moreover the style of fighting with a sword is completty different than fighting with a rapier because the latter is more with finesse. How would you make a parade with a (light) rapier against a heavier sword?
I can't imagine Conan fighting with such a blade.
I work with rapiers on a weekly basis. Now, the ones I deal with are lighter than their historical counterparts, but we fight using both early and late Renaissance styles. The Musketeer-type rapier's you might tend to think of would only weigh about 3-5 lbs and have a 36" blade length, tapering from 1 1/2" down to about 3/4". But the earlier rapiers (say, 1480 to about 1520) could have been as long as 5' blade length!! and have a 2 1/2" forte tapering to about 1" at the foible.

These weapons were seldom used in war in Europe, but usually in gentlemanly street fights. Since a rapier was worth more than the gross product of an entire duchy for a 5 year period, few people could afford the truly nice ones.

IMHO, given two equally skilled opponents, the swordsman with the rapier will always beat the swordsman with a heavier sword, even though rapiers were almost always extremely blade-heavy, and rapiers before about 1625 couldn't thrust (too heavy). One last point to my bit on rapiers: they were the first civilian sword in western history, made for civilians (of the upper class of course), and hundreds if not thousands of schools popped up from the latter 1500s onwards. England got into the game later than Europe proper; Germany held on to rapiers after most others went to the smallsword (weapon of "Dangerous Liasons") even still practising dueling to earn dueling scars on the cheeks into the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

The rapier stats in the DnD 3.x books are incorrect, they're listing smallswords, not rapiers.

Hope this helps.
 
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