I'm getting sick of "Lumbering"

[Captain Jonah]

Anyway to get things back on track with this topic.

Does removing the Lumbering Trait for Gorn ships make them overpowered :roll: :wink:

Are the Gorn paying less per ship to account for Lumbering compared to the Romulan’s?

The point’s calculation is roughly 1.25 times the FC cost with adjustments to reflect play testing (by the way, who did play test the Gorn again, anyone willing to admit it :lol: ).

BDD. FC cost 98. ACTA cost 120. Multiple 1.22
HDD. FC cost 117. ACTA cost 145. Multiple 1.24
CL. FC cost 122. ACTA cost 175. Multiple 1.43
BC. FC cost 160. ACTA cost 200. Multiple 1.25
CM. FC cost 161. ACTA cost 210. Multiple 1.3
BCH. FC cost 192. ACTA cost 240. Multiple 1.25
DN. FC cost 229. ACTA cost 325. Multiple 1.42

Humm, aside from the CL and DN both of which are a lot more expensive I’m not seeing Lumbering give a lower cost per unit here.

Are the Romulan’s more expensive in comparison. Looking at some of them.

Battlehawk. FC cost 88. ACTA cost 130. Multiple 1.36
Snipe. FC cost 72. ACTA cost 120. Multiple 1.6
Skyhawk. FC cost 102. ACTA cost 130. Multiple 1.27
KE. FC cost 140. ACTA cost 175. Multiple 1.25
Sparrowhawk. FC cost 135. ACTA cost 170. Multiple 1.26
Firehawk. FC cost 179. ACTA cost 225. Multiple 1.26
Condor. FC cost 245. ACTA cost 305. Multiple 1.25

Nope Aside from the Snipe which someone hates the Romulan’s are about 1.25.

So if the Gorn ships are getting no cost break for the huge disadvantage that is Lumbering how are the Gorn Cruisers balanced out. What is the compensation for no HETS and ONE 45 degree turn every.

Anyone???

 

[Totenkopf]

Anyway to get things back on track with this topic.

Does removing the Lumbering Trait for Gorn ships make them overpowered :roll: :wink:

Are the Gorn paying less per ship to account for Lumbering compared to the Romulan’s?

The point’s calculation is roughly 1.25 times the FC cost with adjustments to reflect play testing (by the way, who did play test the Gorn again, anyone willing to admit it :lol: ).

BDD. FC cost 98. ACTA cost 120. Multiple 1.22
HDD. FC cost 117. ACTA cost 145. Multiple 1.24
CL. FC cost 122. ACTA cost 175. Multiple 1.43
BC. FC cost 160. ACTA cost 200. Multiple 1.25
CM. FC cost 161. ACTA cost 210. Multiple 1.3
BCH. FC cost 192. ACTA cost 240. Multiple 1.25
DN. FC cost 229. ACTA cost 325. Multiple 1.42

Humm, aside from the CL and DN both of which are a lot more expensive I’m not seeing Lumbering give a lower cost per unit here.

Are the Romulan’s more expensive in comparison. Looking at some of them.

Battlehawk. FC cost 88. ACTA cost 130. Multiple 1.36
Snipe. FC cost 72. ACTA cost 120. Multiple 1.6
Skyhawk. FC cost 102. ACTA cost 130. Multiple 1.27
KE. FC cost 140. ACTA cost 175. Multiple 1.25
Sparrowhawk. FC cost 135. ACTA cost 170. Multiple 1.26
Firehawk. FC cost 179. ACTA cost 225. Multiple 1.26
Condor. FC cost 245. ACTA cost 305. Multiple 1.25

Nope Aside from the Snipe which someone hates the Romulan’s are about 1.25.

So if the Gorn ships are getting no cost break for the huge disadvantage that is Lumbering how are the Gorn Cruisers balanced out. What is the compensation for no HETS and ONE 45 degree turn every.

Anyone???

Pretty ships ? Honestly no clue Captain Jonah, I'm not going to wait till you get a few games in first because it has been admitted that Gorns were never play tested as thoroughly as the other races by scoutdad's group.

 

[Nissei]

This maybe to simplistic, but what about changing lumbering to be inline with agileand modifying the turn number of the turn 9 ships to 8.
Rule mod: Lumbering ship can only make 22.5 degree turns and you can do HET but only 90 degree instead of 180 degrees. The limitation of one turn per move is lifted as is the prohibition against HET. The ship will still turn the same as it did under the old rule, but it gets to HET to some degree.

Modifying the Turn number to 8 from 9 would allow those big DNs to regain the 45 degree turn that they would lose under this mod, by making it possible to turn 45 degrees if they go APE.

Just a random thought.

Paul B

 

[Ryueokami]

This maybe to simplistic, but what about changing lumbering to be inline with agileand modifying the turn number of the turn 9 ships to 8.
Rule mod: Lumbering ship can only make 22.5 degree turns and you can do HET but only 90 degree instead of 180 degrees. The limitation of one turn per move is lifted as is the prohibition against HET. The ship will still turn the same as it did under the old rule, but it gets to HET to some degree.

Modifying the Turn number to 8 from 9 would allow those big DNs to regain the 45 degree turn that they would lose under this mod, by making it possible to turn 45 degrees if they go APE.

Just a random thought.

Paul B

22,5 is bad. As it's not played on a hex field, it's easiest to play with 45° and 90° and 180°

 

[Nissei]

Gee... 22.5 is just half of 45.

 

[Ryueokami]

Gee... 22.5 is just half of 45.

If you measure it no prob, but if you try to do it with just eye measurement it gets problematic. 45° and 90° ALL can see at one glance, but 22,5 will be something where discussions between players would arise as it's hard to eye measure.

 

[Nissei]

True enough. I assumed everyone measured. I will have the arcs marked on my bases so adding two more marks to lumbering bases is no problem.

 

[Ryueokami]

True enough. I assumed everyone measured. I will have the arcs marked on my bases so adding two more marks to lumbering bases is no problem.

From experience (other games and also acta: B5): Most don't measure.

 

[Nissei]

Coming from naval gaming, using turning templates just comes natural. Oh well...

 

[Captain Jonah]

Two things here Nissei.

Firstly as Ryueokami has already mentioned 22.5 degree turns are a pain, they require a measure whereas casual games can just be done by eye. And aside from your naval gamers most of us come from a hex or judge by eye school of casual games :wink:

Secondly dropping the size of the turn but allowing more turns still leaves the Gorn heavies unable to turn corners. The least turn able ships of other races can manage a 90degree turn each movement phase yet in the source material they are exactly as manoeuvrable as the Gorn are. Comparing that to the turn mode 4 cruisers that can manage 135 degree turns and the agile ones that can manage 270 Degree turns.

Also the whole point of a HET is that it is an emergency turn. Giving the Gorn ships access to a HET (with a 50% chance of working due to the CQ) means they are faced with drive criticals every time they try to turn.

At present they can make one whole 45 degree turn and no HETS. With DNs I can see this being the case but even the Gorn CM (a medium war cruiser) is saddled with Lumbering.

It’s about two months till we start seeing the Gorn ships. Either someone official actually comes out and says this is a problem or I can see sales of the Gorn being rather poor. After all aside from the hard core Gornites, who is going to pick a fleet that has been deliberately handicapped from the get go.