How *mature* is your Conan?

[Old Bear]

If it's not about getting them in the mood, then as IMHO it serves no purpose in the game. By your definition he should go on to describe the current tax rates in the city, along with the state of running water and whether or not they eat fish on Friday. The whole purpose of introductions is to develop a mood, ort whatever one may want to call it instead.

 

[Supplement Four]

If it's not about getting them in the mood, then as IMHO it serves no purpose in the game. By your definition he should go on to describe the current tax rates in the city, along with the state of running water and whether or not they eat fish on Friday. The whole purpose of introductions is to develop a mood, ort whatever one may want to call it instead.

That's not what he said at all.

There's a scene in, I think, the first season of Rome, where Marc Antony (don't quote me on the character name--I've only seen a little of Rome, but I've got it in my netflix que), comes home, talking to another Roman, and almost like an after thought, leans a servant over and starts riding her from the rear.

Gratitious?

Some would say, I'm sure.

But, it's not. That scene showed you the power these Romans had.

Could they have shown that in another way?

Maybe. There are several different types of story tools. But, that economical scene sure got its point across.

It wasn't about gratitous sex. It was about showing the Romans as they were, with power and emotion.

If you were revolted when you saw that scene, then the filmmakers did their jobs correctly.

 

[Old Bear]

Not only did it not revolt me, I smiled and though, 'ah, those were the days.' That however, has absolutely nothing to do with an RPG session. It's like comparing steak with muesli - you may end up consuming both but you don't prepare them the same way or put them on the same plate.

There is absolutely no reason in the wolrd for a practically inch by inch acceleration up a whore's legs to the point where the terminology used to describe the target region couldn't even be used on a public forum. Does it offend me? Not in the slightest. I'm merely saying I wouldn't have used it as I think it's unneccessary - also it was pretty badly written and a little cringeworthy if we're being honest.

 

[rabindranath72]

There's a scene in, I think, the first season of Rome, where Marc Antony (don't quote me on the character name--I've only seen a little of Rome, but I've got it in my netflix que), comes home, talking to another Roman, and almost like an after thought, leans a servant over and starts riding her from the rear.

Gratitious?

Some would say, I'm sure.

But, it's not. That scene showed you the power these Romans had.

Could they have shown that in another way?

Maybe. There are several different types of story tools. But, that economical scene sure got its point across.

It wasn't about gratitous sex. It was about showing the Romans as they were, with power and emotion.

If you were revolted when you saw that scene, then the filmmakers did their jobs correctly.

The filmmakers should have read some REAL accounts of how Romans behaved.
To you this is an example of historical realism? I suggest you read some TRUE accounts of Rome and Romans (and yes, I am Italian), not watch that pile of c**p.
I would like to know where did they get that Romans behaved that way at all. :roll:
I have read and studied quite a lot of Roman historians, poets etc. in their original versions (i.e. in Latin), even those who described the most atrocious things (like Tacitus), but none of them report such deviant behaviour. Actually, Romans were quite jealous of their private sexual life. The Satiricon by C. Petronius is quite liberal in describing the private habits of Romans, but they were just that: private. A public man like M. Antonius would have NEVER behaved that way in public. Romans had some words to describe "civil" behaviour: Probitas and Pietas.
So, the filmmakers took too many freedom, and ROME is just a piece of (lurid) fiction.
The comparison with how Howard describes things, should be made at least with something which is not blatantly fake, and done in a really GRATUITOUS and poor way. I am ready to bet that Howard himself would not have approved of that way of describing things.
Also, some re-reading of Howard may be in order to properly assess the "mood" and convey the right atmosphere. Gratuitous use of words is not in Howard's style. Add gratuitous porn and you are getting a different kind of "pulp".

Now, if you use ROME as inspiration for your campaigns, that's just fine if you and your players like it.
But THAT has nothing to do with Conan or how Howard describes things. Just read how Howard describes when the demon Thog takes Thalis in Xuthal. All the description is from the point of view (or better, point of hearing) of Natala. We get the description of sobbing, cries, Thalis asking for mercy. What is Thog DOING to Thalis? Is it raping her? Is it killing her slowly? We are left with speculations, which is much more horrifying than a lurid description like "Thog penetrates Thalis with its lustful tentacle". How cool :roll:
Hinting at things can be a much more powerful tool than vivid descriptions, since the mind is left open to speculation.

Again, YMMV, but Howard is not about lurid descriptions (and this is a fact).

 

[Style]

Agreed, rabindranath72. Not revealing all the details is typically much more terrifying than laying out all the "realistic" gory details. Likewise, an inch by inch description of the naked female body is not nearly as sensual or erotic as the more subtle methods of great writers like Howard.

I'm striving for Howard-like story telling in my game. YMMV.

 

[Supplement Four]

You know, when it comes down to it, I'm not GMing a game with you guys in it (as argumentive as a couple of you are, I'd kick you out of my game). I'm running a game for my players.

My players enjoy the way I run things--they must, or they wouldn't stick around for as long as they have.

So, it really doesn't matter if you don't like the way I roll a die or describe a whore or the way I role play an encounter rather than roll play it.

This conversation is moot. I'm not looking for your approval (for those that disagree with my description of the whore).

My games have an "edge" to them, and that's the way we like it.

And, when we play rpgs, we typically have a blast.

We've already broken our once-a-month rule, since we're playing again this Sat.

So, that tells me something is going "right".

 

[rabindranath72]

Definitely you are doing right if you and your players like it!
As far as I can tell, the discussion is not about "wrong-right fun", rather what should characterise a proper Howardian atmosphere and mood. Even to the casual reader it should be apparent that soft (or hard) porn or gratuitous and gory descriptions are definitely not Howardian.
This does not mean that you are doing "wrong" with your players, just that you are not conveying an Howardian atmosphere. That's all. If you are having fun, more power to you.

 

[LilithsThrall]

I wasn't going to respond to S4 - as I said, I was done with my conversation with him. But since he directly addressed me, it seems he doesn't want to finish our dialogue.
So, I'll continue.
This isn't about being offensive, it is about being juvenile. Your description strikes me as deeply juvenile (though pretending to be 'adult').
If your players like that kind of thing, then do it. I'm just saying that adults who've actually been in adult relationships get quickly turned off by this sort of cheap trick.
Pornography is not 'edge'. 'Edge' is drama. There's nothing whatsoever dramatic in your description.
And if this was not what you actually used in the game, then why did you post it here? I cannot for the life of me figure out what you were attempting to accomplish by doing that.

 

[Supplement Four]

So, I'll continue.

I knew you were dying too!

This isn't about being offensive, it is about being juvenile. Your description strikes me as deeply juvenile (though pretending to be 'adult').

I got that from your earlier comments, loud and clear.

I don't agree, and more importantly, my players don't agree. If they did, I'd have a problem on my hands.

I'm coming off to you as juvenile, and you're coming off to me as a Democrat. :shock: So, let's just let it lie there.



I will end with this: I got a kick out of it today when I was at work. I was thinking about this thread--about how it sparks some people (which is kinda the point with my description other, but I digress). Our second game is coming up on Saturday. I sent a text to my players. We live in different sections of the city, so we rotate homes each game.

If you've read my thread on our first game session, you'll know that we spent most of the session doing character generation, leaving only the last hour or so to start the game.

We didn't get out of the tavern (where I started the game with the image of the whore and the night's drinking).

My players sent a text back to me, confirming they'd be there on Sat morn.

What made me laugh was the last text I received. "Back to the titty bar? You bet! I'm there!"

I know some of you won't think that's very funny. But, I got a belly laugh out of it.

 

[Old Bear]

I think what it comes down to is that each group does its own thing, and has its own sense of humour. When I used to write Tales From Mongoose Hall there were many things I simply couldn't put in or didn't feel were appropriate. In jokes which to use seemed hilarious would to others seem equally as juvenile as the examples we are seeing now. Equally, some of the stuff was too adult to be printable!

However, before anybody gets on their high horse I should point out that in 46 years of being a silly sod and having a wide range of idiotic hobbies encompassing, wargaming, roleplaying, Napoleonic re-enactment, paintballing, airsoft, etc. that roleplaying is easily the most childish, both from concept and my experience of those partaking. I don't see that as a bad thing. Growing up is hugely overrated and is genrally only something you want to happen when you are too young to grasp the consequences.

So, those of you roleplaying who perceive yourself to be on a higher plane because you aren't in the 'Titty Bar', stop deluding yourself and grown down a bit. :wink:

 

[Style]

Growing up is hugely overrated and is generally only something you want to happen when you are too young to grasp the consequences.

Wisdom.

This is one of the reasons having kids is so great. You now have a legitimate excuse to play and be silly again, and you can see the world through their eyes. My life became tremendously more fun when my first was born.

 

[kintire]

that roleplaying is easily the most childish, both from concept and my experience of those partaking. I don't see that as a bad thing. Growing up is hugely overrated and is genrally only something you want to happen when you are too young to grasp the consequences.

You only say that because you don't grasp the depth and profundity of roleplaying as a medium. We are not telling childish stories here, we are plunging into the depths of our psyche and confronting our very identity. Alienated from the innocence of childhood we seek meaning in the cold, empty world. Through the power of our roleplaying, or as I prefer to describe it, Hyper-sub-reality Psycho-Storybirthing, we provide the super-mental framework on which our inner agonies can be drawn across a pseudo-canvas and can produce rich and emo-psycho-relevance positive tapestries of our inner souls. The deep maturity of psyche and its associated angst that I... err... we possess can thus be de-psychised and materialised into the consensual paradigm, which must be, in the end, the goal of all true art. For Hyper-sub-Reality Psycho-Storybirthing is true art, and truest of all in its essential ephemerality. It exists, like us, only in the moment, and then passes into the echoes of out psyche.

Those shallow people who simply "play" these "games" can never appreciate the full meaning of this. They respond with incomprehension, and from incomprehension, mockery. But I rise..we rise... above the simple mockery of shallow souls, confident that our contributions to the consensual paradigm will ripple on the the shared psychohistory when theirs have long since passed away, and that when we confront a GM's "plot relevant" NPC and waste him with our crossbow, we do so meaningfully. So, so meaningfully.

 

[rabindranath72]

Those shallow people who simply "play" these "games" can never appreciate the full meaning of this. They respond with incomprehension, and from incomprehension, mockery. But I rise..we rise... above the simple mockery of shallow souls, confident that our contributions to the consensual paradigm will ripple on the the shared psychohistory when theirs have long since passed away, and that when we confront a GM's "plot relevant" NPC and waste him with our crossbow, we do so meaningfully. So, so meaningfully.

Do not forget that when we rise to those high skies, we enter into an intimate relationship with the God of the Empty Abodes (a.k.a. Yog-Sothoth)!

 

[LilithsThrall]

I think what it comes down to is that each group does its own thing, and has its own sense of humour. When I used to write Tales From Mongoose Hall there were many things I simply couldn't put in or didn't feel were appropriate. In jokes which to use seemed hilarious would to others seem equally as juvenile as the examples we are seeing now. Equally, some of the stuff was too adult to be printable!

However, before anybody gets on their high horse I should point out that in 46 years of being a silly sod and having a wide range of idiotic hobbies encompassing, wargaming, roleplaying, Napoleonic re-enactment, paintballing, airsoft, etc. that roleplaying is easily the most childish, both from concept and my experience of those partaking. I don't see that as a bad thing. Growing up is hugely overrated and is genrally only something you want to happen when you are too young to grasp the consequences.

So, those of you roleplaying who perceive yourself to be on a higher plane because you aren't in the 'Titty Bar', stop deluding yourself and grown down a bit. :wink:

Just for the record, I play Paranoia, Feng Shui, Stalking the Night Fantastic, and would like to play Toon someday (if I could find the people to play it with). What we're discussing here is not childs' play. What's more, I don't believe you believe it is anymore than I believe you'd hand your eight year old son the keys to your porn collection.

 

[Old Bear]

that roleplaying is easily the most childish, both from concept and my experience of those partaking. I don't see that as a bad thing. Growing up is hugely overrated and is genrally only something you want to happen when you are too young to grasp the consequences.

You only say that because you don't grasp the depth and profundity of roleplaying as a medium. We are not telling childish stories here, we are plunging into the depths of our psyche and confronting our very identity. Alienated from the innocence of childhood we seek meaning in the cold, empty world. Through the power of our roleplaying, or as I prefer to describe it, Hyper-sub-reality Psycho-Storybirthing, we provide the super-mental framework on which our inner agonies can be drawn across a pseudo-canvas and can produce rich and emo-psycho-relevance positive tapestries of our inner souls. The deep maturity of psyche and its associated angst that I... err... we possess can thus be de-psychised and materialised into the consensual paradigm, which must be, in the end, the goal of all true art. For Hyper-sub-Reality Psycho-Storybirthing is true art, and truest of all in its essential ephemerality. It exists, like us, only in the moment, and then passes into the echoes of out psyche.

Those shallow people who simply "play" these "games" can never appreciate the full meaning of this. They respond with incomprehension, and from incomprehension, mockery. But I rise..we rise... above the simple mockery of shallow souls, confident that our contributions to the consensual paradigm will ripple on the the shared psychohistory when theirs have long since passed away, and that when we confront a GM's "plot relevant" NPC and waste him with our crossbow, we do so meaningfully. So, so meaningfully.

Total quality. Respect. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Old Bear]

I think what it comes down to is that each group does its own thing, and has its own sense of humour. When I used to write Tales From Mongoose Hall there were many things I simply couldn't put in or didn't feel were appropriate. In jokes which to use seemed hilarious would to others seem equally as juvenile as the examples we are seeing now. Equally, some of the stuff was too adult to be printable!

However, before anybody gets on their high horse I should point out that in 46 years of being a silly sod and having a wide range of idiotic hobbies encompassing, wargaming, roleplaying, Napoleonic re-enactment, paintballing, airsoft, etc. that roleplaying is easily the most childish, both from concept and my experience of those partaking. I don't see that as a bad thing. Growing up is hugely overrated and is genrally only something you want to happen when you are too young to grasp the consequences.

So, those of you roleplaying who perceive yourself to be on a higher plane because you aren't in the 'Titty Bar', stop deluding yourself and grown down a bit. :wink:

Just for the record, I play Paranoia, Feng Shui, Stalking the Night Fantastic, and would like to play Toon someday (if I could find the people to play it with). What we're discussing here is not childs' play. What's more, I don't believe you believe it is anymore than I believe you'd hand your eight year old son the keys to your porn collection.

You forgot the smiley. You weren't being serious, after all, were you?

 

[Style]

that roleplaying is easily the most childish, both from concept and my experience of those partaking. I don't see that as a bad thing. Growing up is hugely overrated and is genrally only something you want to happen when you are too young to grasp the consequences.

You only say that because you don't grasp the depth and profundity of roleplaying as a medium. We are not telling childish stories here, we are plunging into the depths of our psyche and confronting our very identity. Alienated from the innocence of childhood we seek meaning in the cold, empty world. Through the power of our roleplaying, or as I prefer to describe it, Hyper-sub-reality Psycho-Storybirthing, we provide the super-mental framework on which our inner agonies can be drawn across a pseudo-canvas and can produce rich and emo-psycho-relevance positive tapestries of our inner souls. The deep maturity of psyche and its associated angst that I... err... we possess can thus be de-psychised and materialised into the consensual paradigm, which must be, in the end, the goal of all true art. For Hyper-sub-Reality Psycho-Storybirthing is true art, and truest of all in its essential ephemerality. It exists, like us, only in the moment, and then passes into the echoes of out psyche.

Those shallow people who simply "play" these "games" can never appreciate the full meaning of this. They respond with incomprehension, and from incomprehension, mockery. But I rise..we rise... above the simple mockery of shallow souls, confident that our contributions to the consensual paradigm will ripple on the the shared psychohistory when theirs have long since passed away, and that when we confront a GM's "plot relevant" NPC and waste him with our crossbow, we do so meaningfully. So, so meaningfully.

Post of the year nomination.