How *mature* is your Conan?

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

A good story doesn't need cheap tricks

True...

and an adult environment doesn't need porn to be identifiable as an adult environment.

True...
But there still one question: What is porn and what is a realistic depiction of that society?

 

[Ichabod]

A good story doesn't need cheap tricks

True...

and an adult environment doesn't need porn to be identifiable as an adult environment.

True...
But there still one question: What is porn and what is a realistic depiction of that society?

It's porn at the point where it serves no purpose but the sexual stimulation of the audience.

Describing debauchery can have various uses, shock value for one thing, just the idea of contrast between cultures, classes, or whatever. And, so forth, for anything else that has a titillating aspect to it. Just read the Stygian sourcebook if you want references to what we would see as pedophilia, molestation/rape of minors, bestiality, and whatnot. It's not porn because it's intended to provide background on the society.

I don't know, I don't find it too difficult to distinguish what is porn.

Porn with one's friends is disturbing and something I usually try to avoid beyond making fun of it. Now, if I can find a gaming group of nothing but hot chicks and they were fine with it, well, so much the better.

 

[Malcadon]

Talk about shamelessly gratuitous hardcore porn unleashed in RPGs, do anyone remember F.A.T.A.L.?

It hard to believe you can go wrong with ultra micro-management of the exact dimensions (and orifice capacity) of breasts & genitalia, and even a complex to hit system for urinating accurately. :lol: :roll:

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

That was not the only fatal flaw of F.A.T.A.L.
The rules are not very balanced and the background is much worse than the rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

A good story doesn't need cheap tricks and an adult environment doesn't need porn to be identifiable as an adult environment.

I didn't present any cheap tricks...just a faithful represenation of the Hyborian Age.

Now, since I know that you are compelled to get the last word, you can do so. I'm done.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Supplement Four]

It's porn at the point where it serves no purpose but the sexual stimulation of the audience.

That's as good a representation of porn as any.

And, I can tell you, no one at my gaming table was "sexual stimulated" when I described that opening scene in my game last Saturday.

In fact, it did what I intended it to do. It brought them deeper into the atmosphere of the game.

We had a great session.

Porn with one's friends is disturbing and something I usually try to avoid beyond making fun of it.

I am so glad I was able to provide you with something "to make fun of".

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

A good story doesn't need cheap tricks and an adult environment doesn't need porn to be identifiable as an adult environment.

I didn't present any cheap tricks...just a faithful represenation of the Hyborian Age.

For some of us, that's still a cheap trick...
But for those even a realistic and faithful depiction of ancient Egypt or Crete would be considered a cheap trick.

 

[Supplement Four]

For some of us, that's still a cheap trick...
But for those even a realistic and faithful depiction of ancient Egypt or Crete would be considered a cheap trick.

You are right, of course. I always warn people who come to my games that we slide to the side of "realsim" within whatever universe we are playing.

Say we're playing a WWII rpg. Nazis could be portrayed as the card-board baddies we see in the Indianna Jones films.

That's not our style at all.

If we were playing that type of rpg, the Nazis would be like what you saw in the Schindler's List scene where Goeth gets up in the morning, takes a drag from his cigarette, and uses the rifle to gun down some Jews.

Of course, not all Germans back then were that evil. I would be just as likely to present a German soldier like the one in Saving Private Ryan where he slid the knife into Mellish, all the while telling him to "Ssshh. Sssh. It will be over soon. It will be OK." I mean, that guy wasn't evil. He was just trying to do his job as a soldier and keep from being killed himself.

My point being: We like the more realistic stuff, even if we're playing a fantasy game.

If we were playing a Batman rpg, I guarrantee you that our game would be more like Batman Begins and The Dark Knight rather than what you saw in Tim Burton's two Batman films.

We're not into "cartooney". We're into transporting ourselves into another, make believe universe and actually living there, worts and all.

 

[Vortigern]

For some of us, that's still a cheap trick...
But for those even a realistic and faithful depiction of ancient Egypt or Crete would be considered a cheap trick.

You are right, of course. I always warn people who come to my games that we slide to the side of "realsim" within whatever universe we are playing.

Say we're playing a WWII rpg. Nazis could be portrayed as the card-board baddies we see in the Indianna Jones films.

That's not our style at all.

If we were playing that type of rpg, the Nazis would be like what you saw in the Schindler's List scene where Goeth gets up in the morning, takes a drag from his cigarette, and uses the rifle to gun down some Jews.

Of course, not all Germans back then were that evil. I would be just as likely to present a German soldier like the one in Saving Private Ryan where he slid the knife into Mellish, all the while telling him to "Ssshh. Sssh. It will be over soon. It will be OK." I mean, that guy wasn't evil. He was just trying to do his job as a soldier and keep from being killed himself.

My point being: We like the more realistic stuff, even if we're playing a fantasy game.

If we were playing a Batman rpg, I guarrantee you that our game would be more like Batman Begins and The Dark Knight rather than what you saw in Tim Burton's two Batman films.

We're not into "cartooney". We're into transporting ourselves into another, make believe universe and actually living there, worts and all.

Quite my own style, as I would describe it. Yet even within such a context there are varying degrees of ... 'graphic' content. That certainly would be a matter of not just taste, but audience, comfort level, and the like. What could seem like 'atmosphere' to one can certainly seem overly gratuitious <sp?> to the next. As the case may be.

I'd say I'm more in favor of graphicness as long as it doesn't turn into porn, using the afore-posted definition.

 

[Supplement Four]

What could seem like 'atmosphere' to one can certainly seem overly gratuitious <sp?> to the next. As the case may be.

Obviously. Thus, this discussion.

But, that's how we play. That's how I run a game. The plots get complicated, and if a rated R or rated X scene will serve my story, then I do not hesitate to include it.

Sometimes making the players uncomfortable with description and story-telling is exactly what I want. For example, one time I was trying to get the players to hate--and I mean really HATE--orcs in a D&D game. This was years ago (back before 3.0 came out). The orcs had been raiding their villages, burning them to the ground, stealing children, killing everyone else.

But, the players seemed to take it in stride. I felt I wasn't doing a good job of making the orcs any different than your standard two-dimensional action-fare baddies (like the Nazis in Indianna Jones).

So, I pulled something out of my GM hat-o-tricks. As they were scouting the orcish border, I had them come across another burnt out villiage--but, in this one, the orcs weren't done.

The players heard screams. One of the buildings wasn't burning, so they looked there. Inside, they found these orcs holding a 14 year old human girl, naked, beat to a pulp, spread eagled with a hairy, slobbering orc holding each limb as another of the orcs was raping her.

That did the trick.

No longer were my "bad guy" orcs just like the Nazi baddies in Indianna Jones. My players went ballistic. They were appalled. They were disgusted.

Not an orc survived.

And, after that, it was war...truly WAR with the orcs.

The intensity of my game jumped through the roof. One of my players told me, "My God, you're the best GM I've ever played with because I truly, truly hate those orcs. I want the entire lot of them dead. Genocide."

For me, that type of description is only a tool. I use it for atmosphere and emotional reaction.

Like any story, the goal of a good rpg story is to grab players' emotions. It this type of thing is what is needed to do that, then I won't hesistate.

Because, typically, the results are golden. I mean, you can't pay players to be that interested in your game.

When you get them "there", you've got them.

To me, that's what good GMing is all about.

Telling a good story.

 

[Vortigern]

I think we probably follow a similar level of graphicness in our games then S4. Maybe a little bit different vocabulary or whatnot, but I'm a fan of showing it like it is, rather than how people would like it to be.

 

[LilithsThrall]

A good story doesn't need cheap tricks and an adult environment doesn't need porn to be identifiable as an adult environment.

I didn't present any cheap tricks...just a faithful represenation of the Hyborian Age.

For some of us, that's still a cheap trick...
But for those even a realistic and faithful depiction of ancient Egypt or Crete would be considered a cheap trick.

If you can point to an example of REH using the word cooch in his books, I'll eat my hat.
That's not a realistic and faithful depiction of ancient Egypt or Crete. Since Anthro was one of my undergrads, I doubt there are very many people in this forum who know more about cultural differences in sexuality than I do. This wasn't it.
Let's at least keep the record straight. REH didn't use this kind of language. Cultures where sexuality isn't a big thing treat sexuality as not a big thing - they don't go into language like this (at least none that I know of).

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

:roll:
You really did not understand!
This is not about a single word used, but about descriptions.

 

[Csmallo]

If you aren't a basement dwelling momma's boy, do you really need that kind of description?

"The whore moved seductively. Her dance carrying her to the table top. The gyrations of her body ending as she stretches out on the table, legs spread. Eyes beckon the drunk boys watching her, inviting them to sample her pleasures."

See, the exact same scene, but with out the 8th grade "Hustler" descriptions. And much more in the theme of REH than "cooch".

 

[Old Bear]

Better still: "You're in a corking tavern. Drunken whores are plying their trade actively, and they aren't much for wearing clothes. Whaddaya do?"

:wink:

 

[Supplement Four]

:roll:
You really did not understand!
This is not about a single word used, but about descriptions.

He can't read, either. I said earlier that I used the word "cooch" just in this thread to lighten it up a bit.

Not that it's that important (but it seems to be to Liliths), the actual words I used in my game were, "Your eyes crawl up to the top of the woman's bare leg until you can see what other men pay for."



@Liliths

I thought you said you were "Done"? Obviously, you're not.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

Let's compare those descriptions:

"The whore moved seductively. Her dance carrying her to the table top. The gyrations of her body ending as she stretches out on the table, legs spread. Eyes beckon the drunk boys watching her, inviting them to sample her pleasures."

That is claerly one event, happening in front of the characters.

"You're in a corking tavern. Drunken whores are plying their trade actively, and they aren't much for wearing clothes. Whaddaya do?"

That is just a small overview, mostlikely given at entering the tavern.

"Your eyes crawl up to the top of the woman's bare leg until you can see what other men pay for."

This can be seen as a addition to the description.

All three descriptions are fitting and I would use all of them.

 

[Supplement Four]

All three descriptions are fitting and I would use all of them.

As would I.

 

[Old Bear]

"You're in a corking tavern. Drunken whores are plying their trade actively, and they aren't much for wearing clothes. Whaddaya do?"

That is just a small overview, mostlikely given at entering the tavern.

As far as the whoring goes that's all you need. If a big man with a scimitar happens to be at a table, then you move on to him. You might even throw in that one of the whores is with him, maybe even wrapped around him.

What I don't think you need (at least I don't, but them I'm 46 and have actually had real sex once or twice) is soft porn level Playboy stuff to get the players in the mood. If they are anything like any male roleplayer I've ever met the mention of women in any situation has pretty much the same effect. :wink:

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

Its not a matter of getting the players in the mood, but a matter of a realistic depiction of that society.
Take a look of the TV series Rome: it was possible to tell the story without all the mature content, but then the story would have lost much of its realism.