How long to activate the Jump Drive?

[MasterGwydion]

Note that the bubble T5 refers to is a bubble of our normal spacetime and quantum fields - this bubble of normal space is maintained by the hull.

It is not hydrogen filled, it is a vacuum of four dimensional spacetime and the fundamental quantum fields of our universe maintained as a bubble of the quantum foam that makes up the jump dimensions.

In T5 the hull grid wiring maintains the normal universe field conformal to the hull and a metre or so extended beyond it. It is a field, not a bubble of hydrogen.
The jump bubble version extends the normal space bubble as a sphere around the ship, but again it is a field that maintains our normal space within, and once again it is not filled with hydrogen.

Not filled with, used to create.

 

[Sigtrygg]

No, there is no hydrogen used to create the bubble. The hydrogen is used to generate the energy necessary for the jump drive to create the field that interacts with jump space dimensions.
In an antimatter powered jump drive it is the generation of energy from the matter/antimatter rection that is used to generate the field.

The collector works somewhat differently, it is not a big photovoltaic cell. It somehow interacts with the particle expression of the jump field interaction and when its 'jump accumulators' are filled it may then initiate jump.

When I originally posed the exotic particles idea I said they were generated by stars to order to model the original Annic Nova. Since the retcon to collectors in MgT/T5 then I would have to handwave interaction with the quantum fields that fill even the vacuum of space - proximity to a star no long appears to matter.

 

[MasterGwydion]

No, there is no hydrogen used to create the bubble. The hydrogen is used to generate the energy necessary for the jump drive to create the field that interacts with jump space dimensions.
In an antimatter powered jump drive it is the generation of energy from the matter/antimatter rection that is used to generate the field.

The collector works somewhat differently, it is not a big photovoltaic cell. It somehow interacts with the particle expression of the jump field interaction and when its 'jump accumulators' are filled it may then initiate jump.

When I originally posed the exotic particles idea I said they were generated by stars to order to model the original Annic Nova. Since the retcon to collectors in MgT/T5 then I would have to handwave interaction with the quantum fields that fill even the vacuum of space - proximity to a star no long appears to matter.

MgT2 CRB 2022 seems to contradict you. Page 157 states,

Jump travel is the only known means by which a vessel
may travel faster than light. To jump, a ship creates
a bubble of hyperspace by means of injecting highenergy
exotic particles into an artificial singularity. The
singularity is driven out of our universe, creating a tiny
parallel universe that is then blown up like a balloon
by injecting hydrogen into it. The jump bubble is folded
around the ship, carrying it into the little pocket universe.

Hydrogen is injected into jumpspace blowing it up like a balloon, not converted into power. It has been different in other versions, but this is the current MgT2.

 

[Condottiere]

To reiterate, speculative.

Simply, it looks like we're trying to fit the pieces given into a coherent jigsaw picture.

 

[MasterGwydion]

To reiterate, speculative.

Simply, it looks like we're trying to fit the pieces given into a coherent jigsaw picture.

That is actually exactly what I am trying to do...lol...

 

[Sigtrygg]

The 2022 quote is contradicted by the words of MWM himself. His jumpspace article should be the reference for how things work in the OTU, it is even part of MGT canon. The author of the 2022 quote should have done better research.

I have quoted the relevant sections from the MWM article, hydrogen is only used to generate the power for the jump - there is no hydrogen filled bubble, that particular trope developed from a misunderstanding of what was written in the MegaTraveller Starship Operators Manual which first describes the jump field as a bubble of normal space. I think it was FF&S that first mentions using a small amount of hydrogen being used to 'prop up' the bubble, but this is directly in contradiction to MWM;s article, T5, and the way collectors and antimatter poered ships jump without hydrogen.

It is pretty galling to see the rules diverge from their own canon. Since MWM decides what is canon for his setting then within the Third Imperium jump works the way he describes in his article, not in a bit of misunderstood contradictory fanon/canon.

The 2022 quote and MWM's article can't both be correct, and I tend to side with MWM if he has a definitive version.

Still at the end of the day it is a game and such discussions shouldn't get in the way of people enjoying their games.

I look forward to the updated version of HG to see if they reconcile collectors and anti matter powered ships being able to jump without hydrogen.

 

[MasterGwydion]

The 2022 quote is contradicted by the words of MWM himself. His jumpspace article should be the reference for how things work in the OTU, it is even part of MGT canon. The author of the 2022 quote should have done better research.

I won't disagree with that at all, but unless they change it up in High Guard, then it is what it is.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I agree with you

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

So, has anyone else played with weaponized jump bubbles?

 

[Condottiere]

That would be our equivalent of the Holdo Manoeuvre.

To avoid misjumping, you'd need to be very precise how much volume of the other spacecraft you're going to slice off, have an unaware enemy, and rather precise piloting control.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

That would be our equivalent of the Holdo Manoeuvre.

To avoid misjumping, you'd need to be very precise how much volume of the other spacecraft you're going to slice off, have an unaware enemy, and rather precise piloting control.

Lots of assumptions there…

We started with a 7.5 ton Jump-1 J-drive (TL-12 Early jump x3), attached to a high-efficiency battery, a Thrust 12 R-Drive (TL-13 Fuel Efficient x3) and a robot brain. No one cared about the misjump aspect (in fact, a misjump was desirable as it created more damage).

It was a weapon of last resort….and then we started refining it.

 

[Geir]

We started with a 7.5 ton Jump-1 J-drive (TL-12 Early jump x3), attached to a high-efficiency battery, a Thrust 12 R-Drive (TL-13 Fuel Efficient x3) and a robot brain. No one cared about the misjump aspect (in fact, a misjump was desirable as it created more damage).

Therese's still the 10 ton minimum to overcome (new HG p. 16), either, by kicking it back up to 10 or by reducing it to 7 tons at the expense of the early jump.

 

[Condottiere]

There's one shot drives, but yes, you're still stuck at minimum ten tonnes, unless you're using size reduction.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

Therese's still the 10 ton minimum to overcome (new HG p. 16), either, by kicking it back up to 10 or by reducing it to 7 tons at the expense of the early jump.

You are correct. I overtyped the paste:

...a Tonipal Jump-1 J-drive (TL-12 Early jump x3), attached to a high-efficiency battery, a Thrust 12 R-Drive (TL-13 Fuel Efficient x3), with 7.5 tons of fuel and a robot brain. No one cared about the misjump aspect (in fact, a misjump was desirable as it created more damage).

 

[Condottiere]

If you exceed capacity, you can't jump.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

If you exceed capacity, you can't jump.

If you exceed capacity, you can't jump safely.

 

[Arkathan]

It occurs to me that when hyperdrive techs a millennia from now ferry a group of archeologists back to earth and piece together this discussion on higher dimensional characteristics of FTL travel, they will laugh their butts off until they realize that we are all a bunch of RPG nerds. Then one of the techs will ask, "What is an RPG?" while another will ask, "What is a nerd?"

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

I can’t remember where I saw the article about unstable jump bubbles below 100dtons, but that always struck me as the true reason that sub-100 dton jump drives would be a problem.

Unstable jump bubbles as a warhead option.

I also thought that jump gates could be a thing in Traveller (basically, like blowing smoke filled bubbles): a large enough toroid creates a stable and sustainable bubble around a spacecraft and sends it on its way….with the variable being exactly when the bubble collapses.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Jump gates are a thing - you just have to know where to look (hint there were two linked T4 advantures)

 

[Condottiere]

1. In theory, our jump drives don't draw power anymore after transition; but I suspect that residual power lasts a bit longer than the initial transitional six minutes, otherwise you could attach the jump drive to the drop tank(s).

2. The smallest legal jump drive, the Venture, has a capacity of one hundred twenty parsec tonnes.

3. The problem with Traveller technology is that a lot of assumptions and presumptions have to be made, which can and do vary across editions.

4. Hundred diameter rule destabilizes transitions, drop tanks are pushed away during bubble creation, explosively and sufficiently so, since I've never found a mention that they contribute to the destabilization.

5. Jump bubble diameter has an odd formula to do with length of the hull, and appears to be somewhat pear shaped, which I never found satisfactory.

6. Has anyone ever tried attaching a fifty tonne external cargo to a two hundred tonne Free Trader and then activated the jump drive?