Horses that kill?

René

Banded Mongoose
Just curious: at the end of CONAN and the spider god Conan is in bounds orders his horse to kill the evil Stygian guy - and the horse does it.

I never heard anything like this, as far as I know horses are "flight" beasts ( the German terminus translated, but you know waht I mean). Is it possible to teach them to kill other people?
 
Horses can be trained to attack. Even today police horses are trained not to get spooked by fire and loud noises. I've also heard they are trained to use their natural instincts to shepherd people, by movement of their bodies.

War horses are trained to enter a fray with a knight or warrior on their backs. Some no doubt would have been trained to attack or rear on command even when not wearing a rider.
 
Lipizzaner Horses are trained to attack with vicious blows delivered by the rear hooves. I have seen such manoeuvers in video footage (movies, TV) for over 20 years. They are a very stocky breed, capable of complex movements and attacks to protect the rider. Whether or not a Lipizzaner can follow verbal commands has yet to be ascertained.

A site: http://www.lipizzaner.com/The_Saga.asp
 
Horses can be trained to attack and can be damn right dangerous- that's a lot of weight to knock down and trample someone, a bite can rip a good chunk of an arm off and the being kicked by one is downright painful if not lethal. You have to train them for years for something as unnatural as extended combat but since they are such valuable and necessary commodites for the armies of the warrior-lords common to Western Hyboria many noble families and merchants likely make it their lifework and gain fortunes by raising vasy herds of them. That's why Warhorses are so damn expensive- it's essentially a small intelligent fighting vehicle in the Hyborian Age.
 
I don't agree. Warhorses can be trained to support a mele battle without fear and to charge on human obstacles and can thus kill in the heat of the battle but I never read or heard of horses who could independantly attack and kill like dogs would do.
 
The King said:
I don't agree. Warhorses can be trained to support a mele battle without fear and to charge on human obstacles and can thus kill in the heat of the battle but I never read or heard of horses who could independantly attack and kill like dogs would do.

Never said that- merely said that horses can be trained to handle battle conditions and if trained to can do some decent damage as well as and in tandem with the rider. Jeessh- you people will read anything contrary in my posts in order to disagree with me- I can feel the love here.....8)
 
I don't think that anyone is going out of their way to disagree with you. I think everyone has been disagreed with on this forum. I sure have! It IS a discussion forum. Posts contrary to one another keep the conversation going.


Too be fair, the first line of your post is...."Horses can be trained to attack"
I can see where The King might have thought you meant like a the way a dog is trained.

AND I agree with your post. So there. :D

Plus: You people? Do you mean nerds?
 
The only possible time when a wild horse (Mustang) can attack and kill and when an alpha (leading) stallion is with his mares. In this case they even attack each other and sometimes fight to death.
 
Hudson said:
Too be fair, the first line of your post is...."Horses can be trained to attack" I can see where The King might have thought you meant like a the way a dog is trained.

Hmmm..I misinterpret King's post, for a day King thinks I drink human blood and Strom thinks I am too shy and demure to send in work for publication. Not to mention the system at work keeps crashing....

:checks astrological sie:

I knew it- Mercury is retrograde. 8)

Plus: You people? Do you mean nerds?

All gamers are nerds- anyone who claim different is in delusion.....
 
Hey, just look at the Avatar I use. Nerd-o-rama! :lol:
(For those of you who love Frank Cho's art, delight in Dean the male Cheauvanist Pig from Liberty Meadows).

Hell, I was even interviewed in a film made by a guy I'd gamed with called Nerd (about roleplaying and the gamers who game within the game).

Hmmm, ahem, um hum. And now for something completely different....
Yeah, horses are capable of some nasty damage, and can be trained to fight AS weapons or work with their rider. The lance charge perfected by medieval knights delivers the entire shock of a warhorse 18 hands or taller at a full gallop, delivering the full force of thrust through the lance tip. And they can kick and bite. Horses are capable of a vast array of feelings, have a pretty good memory, and unlike how depicted in George Orwell's Animal Farm, horses are considered extremely intelligent animals.
 
Erm, um, yeah. Of course, cavalry charge not only brings up images of the Battle of Crecy or War of the Roses and all that, but also the US Civil War or the Boer Wars where cavalry used sabers held aloft and swung with gashing strokes or held in prima in a charge.

Not sure if I was being corrected, mocked or just joined in with, but I'll salute it any way, now since I got a fever and shoulda gone to bed 30 minutes ago, I'm off. G'night & all that gaff.
 
Joined in with, man. ;)

Seriously, at least a third of the reason to use calvary is the bulk of the horse. Warhorses wer trained, not only to ignore the panic and chaos of close quarters fighting, but were also trained at defending themselves and thier riders.
 
See... but there's an easy way to defeat cav, and its called pikes, or since this is Conan... Gundermen. To beat pikes, introduce the greatsword wielding Nemedians. To defeat the greatsword wielding Nemedians, bring up the archers. To defeat the archers bring up the cav...

And on that cyclical note, I'm going to bed.
 
The King said:
I don't agree. Warhorses can be trained to support a mele battle without fear and to charge on human obstacles and can thus kill in the heat of the battle but I never read or heard of horses who could independantly attack and kill like dogs would do.

I think I'll disagree here and say yea you can teach a horse verbal commands to attack. I thought I had heard something along the lines about teaching horses to follow verbal commands. A quick google will show a bunch of websites talking about the subject and the Guide Horse Foundation (http://www.guidehorse.org/training.htm) shows that the horses they use can learn and follow 23 voice commands. So I would say it's possible to do, but you are looking at years and years of training. I mean check out Roy Roger's Trigger that horse was freakishly smart.
 
Hello Folks,


Okay, I find myself agreeing with Raven whole heartedly. My Grandfather trained cowhorses for 60 years to operate in and around the aggressive cattle once bred down here in Florida (brahmas and a type of longhorn called scrub cattle). The horses were trained to be smart, independent, avoid obstacles on their own, find their way home, stand still when the reins are dropped (no matter what noise ect.), and to not back down when the cattle got pushy (mine was down right aggressive right back).
Now I once had this arguement with a player so we went to a source: the guys who train the Lipperzaaners (Myakka, Florida has a ranch that breeds and trains these magnificant beasts). All those tricks you see Lipps do are based on cavalry horse moves. We were informed that the Lipps would defend fallen riders, attack nearby enemy horses (not of their own herd!) on their own, attack enemy infantry on their own ect. They would leap off the ground kicking out with all four hooves, hop forward on their hind legs and lash out with the front hooves, bite legs and arms, and yes, attack on command. The trainer was quite emphatic on that! These were uncut stallions and are aggressive all on their own to begin with (most reenactors use geldings for safety reasons!).
Yes, all this takes time. The horses must be bred for size (around 16 hands is average for a combination of speed and power), intelligence (contrary to popular myth dumb soldiers are bad soldiers) and for aggression (though not vicious, see former). Then they must be trained for at least two years, and then can only be ridden hard after a minmum of a year and a half after birth. Mind you we are talking only the horses of the knights: the elite of military society (think special forces in tanks). From my sources (the Royal Armoury Museum has some good sources) these would be only around 7 to 10% of the forces on any given side.
Mounted men at arms (decently armoured but non-noble cavalry) have much less well trained horseflesh. These are aggressive, uncut stallions and will charge, but are not trained to act on their own nor attack on their own. This being said though, they will go after strange horses and defend themselves of course. Some will defend a rider if they have a close relationship, though many riders could further train their horse on their time to do more. It's a cheap activity that takes up only a few hours a day (all you need is a guide rope and some open ground really).
This description could also refer to steppe ponies rode by bowmen who prefer to avoid mounted melee when they could. To note however, many mongols did train full fledged melee warhorses.
Now scouts breed for speed and intelligence, but were not expected to be combat animals and some sources say geldings were prefered fo stable temperment (much like many cow horses). Still they had a go-to-it attitude and avoided obstacles on their own and could follow voice commands.
Most PC characters not of noble background (or just rich as heck) will have at best the second variety (men at arms mounts). One can just by a high quality uncut stallion or gelding and do your own training. To make a decent cow horse took about six months of daily training and would be the equivelent of a scout horse (follow voice commands, not panic, charge, and not run off). Continued training is a matter of time and the requisite skills.
One last note. Based on measurements of skeletons, horse armour, saddles and desciptions given in contemporary texts the combat horse of the Middle Ages averaged 16 hands. The big 18 hand stallion was for jousting or parade. THAT is when a knight wore that tournament armour that turned him into a turtle and needed a horse of the appropriate size. In combat a knight not only wanted mass, he also wanted agility, speed, and a animal he could mount in a hurry (a knight was expected to mount in full armor of 60+ pounds, without stirrups and do it with a leap!). The jousters agree with this assessment. JUMPING on a HORSE in FULL ARMOUR! Gotta respect those guys! :shock:
 
Hello Folks,


I know my post are long, but I can only post every few days and like to try and anticipate questions and critiques beforehand. I apologize for any frustration.
 
Hello Folks,

Thank you for the compliment. Surprisingly, while high spirited and sometimes hostile to strangers and sudden movements (a bit paranoid), they are surprisingly gentle and loving to their trainers/riders. like big puppies!
 
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