High Guard Update 2022 - Now on PDF and Pre-Order!

[kevinknight]

It interrupts the power for a turn. It might kill all the power, but usually results in a choice between maneuvering and firing. And if the free trader pays for EM hardening on the M-drive, sensors and weapons, the ion cannon is useless during combat. /Fib is cheap for a Comp/5 or /10.
The 2Dx10 is consistent with the previous progression, and no one has been screaming about the barbettes being unbalanced for all these years since the initial printing.

First off, probably because no one used them since they weren't deemed canon. Second off, I don't see a single adventure class, ship much less a civilian ship, in the Ships of the Imperium that have hardening on the M-Drive, sensors, and weapons. Third, while, yes, it might only last one round, but I'm pretty sure the Ion Cannon can fire every round and a good shot allows it to last D3 rounds. Fourth, so what if the Comp/5 or /10 has /fib. What good is a computer if your power plant is offline?

 

[Arkathan]

First off, probably because no one used them since they weren't deemed canon. Second off, I don't see a single adventure class, ship much less a civilian ship, in the Ships of the Imperium that have hardening on the M-Drive, sensors, and weapons. Third, while, yes, it might only last one round, but I'm pretty sure the Ion Cannon can fire every round and a good shot allows it to last D3 rounds. Fourth, so what if the Comp/5 or /10 has /fib. What good is a computer if your power plant is offline?

Power plant doesn't go offline. You get to power your hardened stuff first.
It is incumbent upon the DM to advise the travellers early in the campaign that pirates like to use these things in their setting. Then the characters have a chance to ask around about how to counter them. THEN they should be given an opportunity to prepare before heading out in to areas of space that are not sufficiently patrolled. So designate a few core worlds near the subsector capitol that are well patrolled and relatively free of pirates.
It really isn't that hard to prevent a TPK... unless you have a hobo murder GM, in which case, why are you playing a deadly game like Traveller with that person?

Ran a space battle a couple of weeks ago. 2 on 2. The Characters were in a captured pirate ship with an ion cannon barbette and two triple particle turrets. The quickly found out that missiles are low power weapons, hit really hard, and that it sucks when you have no lasers when there are missiles in the area.

 

[Sigtrygg]

"Ion" weapons have never been a thing in previous versions of Traveller or the Third Imperium setting, the MgT Third Imperium setting book canonises them.

(They are a rip off from Star Wars and do not fit the science paradigm of Traveller, or rather didn't.)

Which means a retcon to allow for standard designs to have them, a change to the tactics employed by navies and pirates, and an acceptance that the pew pew from Star Wars is the direction of the mongoose Third Imperium.

 

[Condottiere]

I already have an idea what to do with ion based weapons, so if they are overpowered, bring it on.

 

[Arkathan]

(They are a rip off from Star Wars and do not fit the science paradigm of Traveller, or rather didn't.)

Which means a retcon to allow for standard designs to have them, a change to the tactics employed by navies and pirates, and an acceptance that the pew pew from Star Wars is the direction of the mongoose Third Imperium.

I disagree.
High Guard is meant to allow you to build ships for any setting, not just 3I.
There is no reason you cannot use Traveller to role play Star Trek, B5 or Star Wars.
Traveller was meant to embody any style of sci fi role playing.
The best part about things like Ion Cannons, Virus, and the Mega-Traveller civil war setting is that you can easily ignore them if you don't like them in your campaign.

 

[kevinknight]

Personally, I like the Ion canon idea. It gives an additional option/tactic in space combat. I just don't want it to be so powerful that every ship suddenly has ion canon barbettes because that's the easiest way to take out your opponent. Wish the author/Matt would chime in on how he intended this to go.

 

[AndrewW]

Ion cannons where originally put in to help simulate other universes, but have since become used in the Mongoose Traveller Third Imperium setting as well.

 

[paltrysum]

Personally, I like the Ion canon idea. It gives an additional option/tactic in space combat. I just don't want it to be so powerful that every ship suddenly has ion canon barbettes because that's the easiest way to take out your opponent. Wish the author/Matt would chime in on how he intended this to go.

Ion barbettes have had their capabilities reduced. You should see it in the update to the book that's coming soon.

 

[kevinknight]

Ion barbettes have had their capabilities reduced. You should see it in the update to the book that's coming soon.

Yay! Thank you.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I agree that High Guard was a generic book in 1e, but this edition is Third Imperium centric, and the Third Imperium did not have ion cannons - they are a cartoon physics Star Wars pew pew rip off.

If you want to use them fine, I do in my Culture setting but I redesignate them as a focused electromagnetic pulse since the description of ion weapons from HG1e is pure science fantasy. Particle accelerators are ion cannons after all, just in space you have to neutralise the charge or the beam would expand and render the weapon useless.

 

[Perkanis83]

Anybody else getting a little annoyed at the new armor rules for fighters? feel like every sub 100 ton design meant for combat is suddenly a Tie fighter that cost far to much, really makes me wonder if essentially any sub 100 ton crafts are meant to be utility stuff only shuttles, tugs, stuff like that.

 

[Sigtrygg]

So you want a fighter that has the same armour as a battleship?

 

[Reisender]

So you want a fighter that has the same armour as a battleship?

The main defense of a fighter is not its armour but its size, speed and manoeuvrability.

 

[Perkanis83]

The main defense of a fighter is not its armour but its size, speed and manoeuvrability.

problem with that is that fighters get sniped on approach to anything resembling a actual combat ship OR are basically deployable missile turrets that hangs back with the carrier, or I do admit they could be useful as point defense. of these the most useful to me is the PD role

 

[Reisender]

problem with that is that fighters get sniped on approach to anything resembling a actual combat ship OR are basically deployable missile turrets that hangs back with the carrier, or I do admit they could be useful as point defense. of these the most useful to me is the PD role

I don't know if there is something wrong with the rules in the Highguard Update 2022, all I say is how I think it should be for fighters to make sense. Fighters should be somewhat expendable. But you have masses of them. The first defense against enemy fighters are the own fighters. The second line of defense on bigger ships are usually fast tracking turrets with rapid firing weapons. Missiles are an option but they cost more money and depending on the TL are easily neutralized by ECM, decoy or rapid firing defense weapons. Depending on the fighter it can dodge or even outrun an incoming missile as well.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The main use of a 'fighter' IMHO will be to act as the forward observer/control oversight for the swarm of missiles and drones fired from your capital ships. The fighter will be able to hand off or accept sensor oversight too.

Why kill a few hundred pilots when you can download them into wafers and run them on the 'fighter' computer?

Warships are expensive and have lots of crew, you would only (usually) commit them to battle if you consider a win the most likely outcome. You will use clouds of unmanned or wafer manned craft to gain an advantage over the opposition or not. If not then retreat and come back with a larger force.

 

[Reisender]

Well, the problem with Traveller is that everyone has a different Tech Level or universe in mind. That makes it difficult to discuss things without making this base clear so that everyone is on the same page.
Sure, at a certain TL and in a certain universe you can have fully automated battles. But the same would apply to something scouting ahead.
If you come from certain sci-fi shows, e.g. Babylon 5, Galactica, Star Wars etc., you may see the use of fighters in a different way.
I think that Traveller is or at least should be generic enough to allow all these aspects.

 

[Condottiere]

The pilot has to be cheaper than the computer generated version of him.

 

[Reisender]

The pilot has to be cheaper than the computer generated version of him.

In one universe sentient life is invaluable and in others it is expendable.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The pilot has to be cheaper than the computer generated version of him.

Unlikely considering all the costs involved in raising the pilot from birth (£100,000), educating them (£52,000), training them (£4,000,000 to train a fast jet pilot according to a quick google). How much is a wafer recording again? And you can copy multiple times and so one pilot can be downloaded into many fighters.

By the way this sort of thing (uploading personality/memory to weapon systems) is actually done in the OTU as described by its creator and owner - see the short story Names by a certain Marc W Miller.