High guard question

[Elysianknight]

Naval colleges:
Struggling to understand there place. Are they pre first term? pg 4, para 10 states "Any graduate from a Naval College will be commissioned and immediately start his first term at rank 1" It follows to talk about the benefits (skills etc) and the negatives (no events etc), including no mustering out benefits for the term, which implies the college is a term. If thatys the case, where are the skill lists?

Any clarification on how it fits into chargen would be appreciated

Thanks

 

[SSWarlock]

Historically, (i.e. in previous versions of Traveller), attendance of military colleges is included in a character's career.

So, for clarity's sake, the quote should state "Any graduate from a Naval College will be commissioned and immediately start his first term in the Navy at rank 1"

 

[Allensh]

It says "he will not gain a mustering out benefit for the term he spent in college" so it definitley is a term

SSWarlock is right about the omission of the words "in the Navy".

Allen

 

[Elysianknight]

Ok, i thought it was that.

So, what do you get for 4 years, apart from a commission? do you get the service skills for the corresponding navy career?
Seems a high price, given there is no events or muster out benefits. Is it purely flavour, or am i missing something?

 

[Allensh]

Ok, i thought it was that.

So, what do you get for 4 years, apart from a commission? do you get the service skills for the corresponding navy career?
Seems a high price, given there is no events or muster out benefits. Is it purely flavour, or am i missing something?

It seems to imply that you do get the zer0-level service skills as well as the commision. it says the graduate leaves the college with " a full set of basic skills, some training in his chosen specialist field, and of course his commission as an officer" But it does not SPECIFY that you "get the Service skills from your chosen specialty as zero level skills and one skill roll from the appropriate Specialist Table (example: a graduate of the Flight College receives all Service skills listed under the Flight career plus one roll on one of the three Speciality tables; when this character then takes that career later on, he must serve at least one term in that speciality". This may not be the intent, but it seems most likely.

Allen

 

[cmdrx]

Started rolling up a Naval Engineer last night using the new rules.

1st term was in the Naval Academy - Engineering College. She had a high INT (12!) so passing the entrance exam was cake. Likewise passing her 4 years. She also graduated with honours (again thanks to being a genius).

According to how I read it, this character will start her next term as a "Crewman", but she receives basic training in her chosen field, in this case Engineering. (Discipline, Comms, Mechanic, Engineer, Vacc Suit and Zero-G). As an honours graduate she gets to choose, as opposed to rolling for a level one skill in service skills for Engineering (the "assignment of her choice"), she can choose. She chose Engineering(Manuever Drives)-1. She Starts next term as an Ensign using the Crewman "class".

Actually I think I'll post the whole process I used creating Alexandria (Alex) Kagushin in the next post.

 

[cmdrx]

Here's an NPC I rolled up for an up and coming game set in the GURPS timeline. aka "Alt-1120".

Alexandria Kagushin.
Starting Stats:
Str8(0) DEx8(0) End8(0) Int12(+2) Edu10(+1) Soc10(+1)

Homeworld: Aramis (Aramis/Spinward Marches 3110)
UPP: A6B0556-B A Im Ni De Cp

Background skills: Computer, Physical Science, Space Science, Engineer

Term 1 - Naval Academy, Age 18 (Years 1100-1103)
Enters the Naval Academy Engineering College. Admitted, rolled Success, graduated with Honours
She gains Basic Training: Discipline, Comms, Mechanic, Engineer, Vacc Suit, Zero-G
She chooses a skill of her choice: Engineering(Manuever Drives)-1
She is a Rank O1 Ensign and gains Melee(Blades)-1
No mustering benefits this term.

Term 2 - Crewman, Age 22 (Years 1104-1107)
She decides to join up with the prestigious Imperial Navy, who have no problem with a bright young Ensign who graduated in the top 10% of her class.
Her term skill is Engineering(Jump Drives)-1. and survives the term.
She meets a Vargr while on shore leave, and gets him out of a jam. (Event roll:Naval Event:Shore encounter - Alien)
Roll for Promotionassed to O2 Sub lieutenant. Gain Skill for Rank:Leadership-1
Skill for Advancement: Gun Cmbt(Pistol)-1
Muster benefits: 1 for term, 1 for rank. She rolls both on benefits table: She gains a Contact and a Weapon, most likely a Naval issue Gauss Pistol.

Term 3 - Engineering, Age 26 (Years 1108-1111, The 5FW)
Enters the Engineering Department on her ship as a mechanic
She survives the term with little fuss. Her Ship in Deneb Sector patrolling the coreward edge against Vargr Corsair activity.
And gains the skill: Mechanic-1
Event:Baffled by latest tech on ship. Engineering(M-Drives) roll: success
Gained Engineer(M-Drive)-2 as a result.
Advancement: passed to O3, gained +1Int (now 13)

Term 4 - Engineering, Age 30 (Years 1112-1115)
Continues in the engineering department and learns more about M-drives, her passion. Gain Engineering (M-Drives)-3. Her quick thinking enables her to survive yet another term of service.
Event: Engaged in damage control, explosion occurs. Roll Engineer(any) to bring situation under control. Succeeded and gains +2DM to next promo. This was a potentially injury causing event so the roll is recorded roll 6+2(Int)+3(Skill)=11/8. For this action she is awarded a Combat Ribbon, a Combat Command Ribbon, and a MCUF. This shortly after the war, possibly an anti-corsair patrol in Deneb Sector.
Advancement. That event granted her a promo to O4 Lt. Commander. She gains Engineer(Power Systems)-1
Muster benefits: 2 for terms served, 2 for rank. goes Half and half for cash and benefits.
Cash: Cr.17,000. Benefits: Air/Raft and +1Edu (now 11)


Term 5 - Naval Engineering, Age 34 (years 1116-1119)
Alex decides to apply for a transfer to the IN Engineering Division. With her previous experience (4 naval terms, including Engineering, the Academy counts!) not to mention her exceptional work in M-Drives on the field of battle, she was practically a shoe-in. Her specialty is as a researcher at the Deneb Depot.
Her job was in the R&D field using her knowledge of M-drives to discover better ways to make them smaller, as a result she gains Engineering(Electronics)-1 as she deals with ultra-miniaturization techniques. Again that head of hers allows her to pass without a hitch.
Event: A hot shot navy test pilot helps with latest modifications. Roll Engineer(M-drives). Passed. The guy is impressed with Alex's modifications that he teacher her how to fly, she gains Pilot(Spacecraft)-1.
Roll for advancement: passed. Rank O5 Commander, She gains Science(Physics)-1 by rank and Admin-1 by roll.
Having been told that her design ideas are top-notch by a X-TEK test pilot, she decides to leave the military life and enter thr private sector as a M-drive research tech.

Age 38, Muster out (Year 1120)
Benefits from Naval Engineer: 1 for term served, 3 for rank, +1DM for rank
Rolling once for cash, 25,000cr. Rolling 3 benefits: Independant Operation, Prototype, Ship's Boat.
She spent 5 terms as career Navy (academy counts in my game) and so gets the 10KCr/yr pension.

Final Stats:

Commander Alexandria "Alex" Kagushin
Female Human Age 38.
Navy(Imperial) 5 Terms. (Academy 1/Crewman 1/Engineering 2/Navy Engineer 1)
Str8(0) Dex8(0) End8(0) Int13(+2) Edu11(+1) Soc10(+1)

Skills:
Computer-0, Physical Science(Physics)-1, Space Science-0, Engineer(M-Drives)-3
Discipline-0, Comms-0, Mechanic-1, Vacc Suit-0, Zero-G-0, Melee(Blades)-1
Engineering(Jump Drives)-1, Leadership-1, Gun Cmbt(Slug Pistol)-1, Engineer(Power Systems)-1
Engineering(Electronics)-1, Pilot(Spacecraft)-1, Admin-1

Benefits:
Total Cash: Cr.42,000
Alien Contact: Vargr
Contact: Naval Crewman
Weapon: Gauss Pistol
Air/Raft
Independent Operation
Prototype
Ships Boat
Cr10,000/yr pension

Awards:
Combat Ribbon
Command Combat Ribbon
MCUF
Long Service Medal

The Campaign is set in the GT timeline, starting 1120, 10 years after the 5FW.
The DM rules for his campaign that the Independent Operation is actually the contractor position with X-TEK. The Ship's Boat has a prototype M-Drive of her own creation. A TL16 drive that is 50% the standard size and priceless. There are many out there that would do anything, even kill, to get such a drive. And so our adventure begins...

 

[Golan2072]

My problem with the Naval Academy is that, in comparison to a regular term in the Navy, it offers very little - you get the same skills, and while you get an automatic commission and promotion, this is balanced with the lack of an Event (which could possible result in an additional skill) not to mention the difficult - in comparison to an ordinary Navy career - success roll.

CT Naval Academy used to be more beneficial (if hard to get into) - it gave you a bonus to Edu in addition to the skills, and opened up the possibility of entering prestigious higher education - Medical School and Flight School.

I wonder if it'll be legal to write my own OGL pre-enlistment options (using my words, of course)...

 

[Allensh]

My problem with the Naval Academy is that, in comparison to a regular term in the Navy, it offers very little - you get the same skills, and while you get an automatic commission and promotion, this is balanced with the lack of an Event (which could possible result in an additional skill) not to mention the difficult - in comparison to an ordinary Navy career - success roll.

CT Naval Academy used to be more beneficial (if hard to get into) - it gave you a bonus to Edu in addition to the skills, and opened up the possibility of entering prestigious higher education - Medical School and Flight School.

I wonder if it'll be legal to write my own OGL pre-enlistment options (using my words, of course)...

I would say as long as you don't reference the OTU it would be as legal as Spica's Career Book 1...and I would be interested in seeing it myself.

Allen

 

[cbrunish]

cmdrx-great write up! But I didn't think that you would muster out after each speciality. Since the character stayed within the Imperial Navy, doesn't that mean she would've mustered out at the end of her career. Not critical but more of a question.

 

[cmdrx]

cmdrx-great write up! But I didn't think that you would muster out after each speciality. Since the character stayed within the Imperial Navy, doesn't that mean she would've mustered out at the end of her career. Not critical but more of a question.

I figured that each specialty would require you to roll on the muster table(unless you roll mmishap!), just as you would if you were going from career to career in the Core rules, or even in Mercenary.
Its also easier to keep track of things than to wait until the very end. Also it gives some characters extra stat points that they can use in the later terms.

After all each specialty has its own table right? So its not a roll on the Core Navy benefit table at the end of service.

 

[starfleet]

The rules state that you gain 1 benefit for each term and each career path.. As such given that each of those within High Gaurd are a Path you gain all benefits that you would as per a mustering out.

Also given that to go into another career path you MUST meet the requirements that makes sense. Because if you fail the roll under High Gaurd or the Core book you have just lost your spot in the Navy etc. All high gaurd does is offer you more 'areas' of the navy and the option that if you fail at the Imperial level you can go to Sub-Sector then to Planetary rather then straight to the DRAFT/Drifter career.

So if you serve 2 terms as a Crewman and move to the Pilot area for 3 terms you would roll for those 2 terms as a crewman on the benefits list for the Crewman then the last 3 on the benefits list on the Pilot + any rank etc bonus's.

That btw is how the rules read.

 

[Empty Hex]

I was similarly flummoxed by that section so I came up with the following house rules for my campaign.

To enter the Naval Academy, a character attempts to pass the admission roll for any one of the colleges. Alternately, a character can instead attempt a Social Standing 10+ roll to enter any college via personal connections (be aware, however, that passing the college course will require the default success skill, personal connections will only get you so far).

A character that fails admission to one of the naval colleges is able to then attempt to join a career of his choice and does not enter the draft.

No character may attempt to enter the Naval Academy after his first term, the Navy has plenty of potential recruits eager to fill their ranks and never wish to be seen as the second choice for any new officer recruit.

After a character has been admitted, he makes a Success roll for his chosen college to determine if he passes the course curriculum.

If a character fails the Success roll for his college, he flunks out. He can then either immediately spend his first term as a Drifter or make a Social Standing 8+ roll. If the character fails this roll, he automatically spends his first term as a Drifter. If he succeeds, determine the effect of the roll. With an effect of 0 or more, he may choose to immediately enlist as an ordinary crewman in a planetary navy. With an effect of 2 or more, he may also choose to immediately enlist as an ordinary crewman in a subsector navy. With an effect of 4 or more, he may also choose to immediately enlist as an ordinary crewman in the Imperial Navy. If a character enlists as a crewman in this manner, he automatically enters regardless of any qualification requirements and he spends his first term as if he had simply qualified for enlistment without having attended the Naval Academy. This represents a character being permitted to stay in the Navy despite being unable to handle the rigors of the Academy. The skills that a character receives from his first term as a crewman represents both his experience as a crewman and what he managed to learn during his tenure at one of the colleges.

If a character passes the Success roll for his college, he then attempts to make the Honors roll and notes the result. A character who passes the Success roll receives Basic Training in the career corresponding to his college (i.e., he receives all service skills at Level 0), he receives 1 Ally (a friend who attended the same college), he automatically receives +1 Edu, and he may roll once on the Advanced Education table for the career corresponding to his college (even if he does not meet the minimum requirement, though only in this one instance). If a character passed his Honors roll, he may choose a skill from the Advanced Education table instead of rolling for it.

The term spent in college does not count as a term in the corresponding career for purposes of any other career’s previous service requirement.

After passing the Success roll and receiving the above skills and education bonus, characters ignore steps 5 through 8 on the character generation checklist (core rulebook, p. 5). In other words, they do not roll for another skill on their career’s Skills and Training tables, they do not roll for survival, they do not roll for events, and they do not roll for advancements or commissions. Additionally, the term spent at the Naval Academy does not count towards a character’s mustering out benefits and also does not count towards terms spent in the corresponding career when determining if an advancement roll forces the character to leave his naval career.

After passing through college, the character chooses a navy to enter (the vast majority choose the prestigious Imperial Navy) and automatically receives his commission. He serves a single term as a crewman rank 01 in his chosen navy (the character automatically passes any qualification roll). He does not receive a basic training skill for entering the crewman path (graduates are expected to be capable of immediately assuming their duties), but he does immediately receive the skill for his officer rank (i.e., melee [blade] 1) and otherwise goes through the term as normal (rolling for survival, events, advancement, etc.). If the character survives this term, he may immediately enter the career corresponding to his college as a commissioned officer of the lowest rank (i.e., he does not have to pass any qualification). Alternately, he can continue to serve as a commissioned crewman at his current rank. Unlike the term spent at the Naval Academy, this term does count towards a character’s mustering out benefits (including determining pension) as well as terms spent for determining whether an advancement roll will force the character to leave his naval career.

 

[kristof65]

I have some High Guard Character generation questions myself, having just created my first HG characters last night. The college question is just one of them I came up with, so thanks for the insights on that. Now to my other questions:

1. The main MgT rules imply that a character can roll for advancement OR can opt to roll for a commission, which is the same number needed as the advancement roll for that career. The HG rules don't contradict this, but add a seperate commision number needed, without specifically mentioning that it's there. My assumption is that it's still an either/or choice, yet I was well into the second term of my first character before I noticed the other number. That made me second guess whether or not it's intended to be an additional roll in HG.

2. (this is the big one) The book specifically states that you can enter a career by meeting the listed qualifications OR meet the previous service requirements. If you enter that career, but don't meet the minimum rank, you are promoted to that rank. That's all fine and dandy until you look at the Command career, which has a Previous Service requirement of three naval terms and a minimum rank of 05. So my character who just spent three terms as a Crewman and yet failed every advancement/commision roll (and thus remained E1) was suddenly eligble to command a starship AND be promoted to 05 just because he'd been in the Navy 12 years? That doesn't make sense - there has to be something missing or unclear there.

3. Mustering out and rank. The rank tables in HG are expanded from E1 to E9 and O1 to O9 with no explanation of how to apply those to the mustering out benefits you get from addtional ranks. While this wasn't really an issue for me - I simply compared the HG and MgT tables and made some common sense correlations, I can see it being a problem for some people.


Overall, I'm pretty disappointed with the HG character generation system, particularly when it comes to rank and advancement. It has a lot of potential, but it's not quite there yet. I feel like I'm going to have to house rule quite a bit for the previous service requirements, and possibly for the advancement system.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Now to my other questions:

1. The main MgT rules imply that a character can roll for advancement OR can opt to roll for a commission, which is the same number needed as the advancement roll for that career. The HG rules don't contradict this, but add a seperate commision number needed, without specifically mentioning that it's there. My assumption is that it's still an either/or choice, yet I was well into the second term of my first character before I noticed the other number. That made me second guess whether or not it's intended to be an additional roll in HG.

It is an Additional Roll, not an Either/Or. In the TMB, the target number is the same, in HG they use different target numbers based on Specialty.

2. (this is the big one) The book specifically states that you can enter a career by meeting the listed qualifications OR meet the previous service requirements. If you enter that career, but don't meet the minimum rank, you are promoted to that rank. That's all fine and dandy until you look at the Command career, which has a Previous Service requirement of three naval terms and a minimum rank of 05. So my character who just spent three terms as a Crewman and yet failed every advancement/commision roll (and thus remained E1) was suddenly eligble to command a starship AND be promoted to 05 just because he'd been in the Navy 12 years? That doesn't make sense - there has to be something missing or unclear there.

I think the book is wrong here. In my mind, you must meet the Term AND Rank requirements to enter that career, not either/or for just the reason you give.

3. Mustering out and rank. The rank tables in HG are expanded from E1 to E9 and O1 to O9 with no explanation of how to apply those to the mustering out benefits you get from addtional ranks. While this wasn't really an issue for me - I simply compared the HG and MgT tables and made some common sense correlations, I can see it being a problem for some people.

The expanded ranks allow for longer careers with advancement. Using the Anagathics rules, it is quite possible for characters to go 9+ terms, which is the only way to get a character to Rank O9 or E9. I agree this is unclear, but I don't see any other way of getting there.

Hope that helps.

 

[Klaus Kipling]

The problem with HG Naval College is that you have the same chance of getting a field commission as passing and if you choose the former you get more skills.

College: 8+ to pass, get 6 0-level skills + 1 skill roll (chosen if get Honours), rank O1.

Enlist: 8+ for commission, 6 0-level skills, 2 skill rolls, + an Event, rank O1.

So if you enlist, you get twice, or possibly 3 times, the skil levels as the college.

 

[phild]

Two questions on this:

1. Has anyone house-ruled a Military Academy for the mercenary rules?
2. Has anyone noticed that the chargen example gets a free promotion - in his first term, he goes from E1 to O1 and then straight to O2. He also doesn't pick any specialisms for Athletics or Melee.

Overally, while I like the idea, given the relatively similarity in the skills tables and survival/advancement rolls, this seems to be a lot of extra fuss for minor benefit. Unless you're the lucky player with a naval character, of course

 

[Kilgs]

I'm glad this series of questions has come up.

I see absolutely no point to entering college. The roll for acceptance is high, if you fail-you're booted out of the navy, no mustering benefit and no event and you start as a Crewmen in your next term anyways.

All you gain, as mentioned above, is an extra skill that you'll get with a Commission roll anyways. The extra 0-level skills are fluff.

I'm reading it the same way everyone else so... why go to college?

 

[drnuncheon]

It is an Additional Roll, not an Either/Or. In the TMB, the target number is the same, in HG they use different target numbers based on Specialty.

The checklist on page 5 says "Military characters (Army, Navy, Marines) can roll for commission instead of rolling for advancement."

The main MgT rules imply that a character can roll for advancement OR can opt to roll for a commission, which is the same number needed as the advancement roll for that career.

The pocket edition at least has a separate throw for commissions - it's over with the career progress and mustering out tables.

In all cases it seems to be Soc 8+, which might help answer the question of why you'd go to a naval college - it's a good way for characters with low Soc scores to get a commission despite their common birth.

 

[Walker]

It is an Additional Roll, not an Either/Or. In the TMB, the target number is the same, in HG they use different target numbers based on Specialty.

The checklist on page 5 says "Military characters (Army, Navy, Marines) can roll for commission instead of rolling for advancement."

The main MgT rules imply that a character can roll for advancement OR can opt to roll for a commission, which is the same number needed as the advancement roll for that career.

The pocket edition at least has a separate throw for commissions - it's over with the career progress and mustering out tables.

In all cases it seems to be Soc 8+, which might help answer the question of why you'd go to a naval college - it's a good way for characters with low Soc scores to get a commission despite their common birth.

That is a good reason.

Another one, in my opinion, is for purposes of overall character development. An officer who achieves their commission through college or an academy has a different mindset than one who came up through the ranks - a "Mustang". For one thing, the Mustang knows what its like to be enlisted - both the good and the bad because they lived it. The academy grad, at least initially has assumptions but no real experience, and may never understand what enlisted life is like.

While I think the Mongoose Academy rules have some gaps compared to previous versions of Traveller, I still find them workable and useful in developing an overall character concept.

BTW, I really like the idea of gaining an Ally as part of the Academy term that was mentioned earlier in the thread. In fact, I like it so much I think I use it and add the possibility of a Rival as well.