snrdg121408
Mongoose
Hello all,
What is the power requirement and cost of an empty barbette?
What is the power requirement and cost of an empty barbette?
We have no idea. Perhaps the barbettes are tailor-made for the weapon, so no standard empty barbette exits?snrdg121408 said:What is the power requirement and cost of an empty barbette?
AnotherDilbert said:We have no idea. Perhaps the barbettes are tailor-made for the weapon, so no standard empty barbette exits?snrdg121408 said:What is the power requirement and cost of an empty barbette?
snrdg121408 said:Almost noon PDT all,
Silly question or two about firmpoints coming up:
A 75 d-ton small craft can opt to have a maximum of three firmpoints allocated to the hull during construction.
To allocate weapons I have to install either a fixed mount or a single turret.
Installing three fixed mounts means I can install one weapon per fixed mount right?
Could I install a mix of fixed mount and single turret or two or three single turrets?
You left out a strategic part of the quote:EldritchFire said:You can actually install up to three weapons per firmpoint. "A firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount… (pg 23) and "Up to three weapons may be mounted on a fixed mount…" (pg24).
But you are right, it is not clearly stated anywhere that a fixed mount on a firmpoint can only mount one single weapon.Up to three weapons may be mounted on a fixed mount (small craft have additional limitations),
Please don't take this personal AnotherDilbert. I am growing tired of how many things in this new edition are "clearly intended" or "not sure what is meant" or just plain not stated. An edition of a game should stand on it's own. Not require me to own other editions published from other publishers, or even their own 1e. The rules should be clearly stated or clearly the options outlined and then clearly stated that the GM selects the best option.AnotherDilbert said:It is clearly intended, as can be seen in the small craft examples, but not actually stated anywhere.
I have no reason to take it personally, I have no affiliation with Mongoose.-Daniel- said:Please don't take this personal AnotherDilbert. I am growing tired of how many things in this new edition are "clearly intended" or "not sure what is meant" or just plain not stated.
Yes, you are right about RAW, but that is not what was intended. So, yes, it should be clarified.EldritchFire said:I agree with -Daniel-, it's not clearly intended at all. It's not listed that firmpoints cannot mount two or three weapons, and thus you are allowed to do so.
http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?p=894817#p894817Nerhesi said:It does actually. It is refering to the fact that smallcraft firmpoints can be fixed mounts or turrets. Extra clarity is given so if you use a smallcraft firmpoint fixed mount, you can still only mount 1 weapon there, not 3 as is indicated in the base rules.AnotherDilbert said:The rules for Type A:
If this rule has nothing to do with small craft, why does it say that small craft has additional limitations, hinting that this rule applies to small craft?Weapons and Screens said:Up to three weapons may be mounted on a fixed mount (small craft have additional limitations – see page XX),
Examples with each firmpoint labelled 1-, 2- or 3-:
30 ton fighter A: 1 - fixed mount pulse laser (reduced range & power consumption)
...
Illegal configs:
30 ton fighter A: 1 - fixed mount triple pulse laser (only a single weapon per fixed mount firmpoint)
EldritchFire said:I agree with -Daniel-, it's not clearly intended at all. It's not listed that firmpoints cannot mount two or three weapons, and thus you are allowed to do so.
The only limitations are:
- Weapons of Medium range or less are reduced to Adjacent range.
- Weapons of greater range are reduced to Close range.
- A weapon on a Firmpoint may not have its range increased beyond Close by any means.
- Power requirements of the weapon are reduced by 25% (rounding up).
There is nothing listed that limits the number of weapons. Heck, many sci-fi shows have craft with dual-mounted weapons on firmpoints: TIEs have two laser cannons, and Vipers have two mass accelerator cannons, death gliders have two staff cannons, etc.
snrdg121408 said:Morning EldritchFire,
Thank you for the additional comments answering my earlier concerns on HG 2e small craft firmpoints.
EldritchFire said:I agree with -Daniel-, it's not clearly intended at all. It's not listed that firmpoints cannot mount two or three weapons, and thus you are allowed to do so.
The only limitations are:
- Weapons of Medium range or less are reduced to Adjacent range.
- Weapons of greater range are reduced to Close range.
- A weapon on a Firmpoint may not have its range increased beyond Close by any means.
- Power requirements of the weapon are reduced by 25% (rounding up).
HG 2e Small Craft p. 24 "A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically forward-facing, but there is no requirement for this), but can be upgraded to a single (not double or triple) turret."
I consider a turret capable of holding a single weapon being installed on a firmpoint/fixed mount to be a limitation. Which is why I based my earlier example on mounting a single weapon on a small craft firmpoint.
There is nothing listed that limits the number of weapons. Heck, many sci-fi shows have craft with dual-mounted weapons on firmpoints: TIEs have two laser cannons, and Vipers have two mass accelerator cannons, death gliders have two staff cannons, etc.
I am a big fan of the original 1978 Battlestar Galactica which I recorded many of the episodes on VHS tape. Unfortunately, the tapes due to age get eaten by VHS players, however I did mange to pick up the original movie on DVD which I have reviewed. From what I can see the Viper has a weapon mounted on either side of the where the wings meet the fuselage.
Looking at the Battlestar Galactic RPG, pictures, illustrations, film clips, Wikipedia, and other web material from the 2004 version a Viper, depending on the model, appears to mount two or three weapons. Like the 1978 model two weapons are mounted where in the wings, and a third one i mounted on the Viper's tail.
All the material I have access to indicates to me that the weapons are in separate fixed mounts.
The TIE fighter I'll have to dig out my Star Wars stuff but IIRC the weapons appear to me to be in separate mounts on either side of the fighter's center line.
I could be mistaken but the weapons mounted in the wings of WW II fighters seem to have been fixed in place separately which made if easier to replace ones that malfunctioned or damaged.
Core, p156.However, a pilot may fire any weapons that are noted as being in fixed mounts
AnotherDilbert said:I do not see any problem with the pilot firing all fixed mounts, they don't have to be on the same hard-/firm-point:
Core, p156.However, a pilot may fire any weapons that are noted as being in fixed mounts
Each hard-/firm-point is probably a separate attack.
English is not my native language, but I see a different between "any weapon" = any one weapon, and "any weapons" = as many weapons as you want. I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong.EldritchFire said:That, to me, says that a pilot can choose to fire any fixed-mount weapon, not choose to fire all fixed-mount weapons. As in, if you have two fixed-mounted weapons, the pilot may fire one or the other—not both.AnotherDilbert said:I do not see any problem with the pilot firing all fixed mounts, they don't have to be on the same hard-/firm-point:
Core, p156.However, a pilot may fire any weapons that are noted as being in fixed mounts
But some rule should have been there. Regardless of restrictive or not, to just leave it vague and unclear begs for conflict and confusion among fans.EldritchFire said:I for one am glad that rule never made it into the book. As I said in my prior post, dual-mounted firmpoints are a staple sci-fi—well, the sci-fi I consume, in any event. I could see limiting it to only two weapons, due to the size (or lack thereof) of the firmpoints, but only one just doesn't jive with my vision of sci-fi.
AnotherDilbert said:English is not my native language, but I see a different between "any weapon" = any one weapon, and "any weapons" = as many weapons as you want. I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong.EldritchFire said:That, to me, says that a pilot can choose to fire any fixed-mount weapon, not choose to fire all fixed-mount weapons. As in, if you have two fixed-mounted weapons, the pilot may fire one or the other—not both.AnotherDilbert said:I do not see any problem with the pilot firing all fixed mounts, they don't have to be on the same hard-/firm-point:
Core, p156.
Pedantically I would say that you may only perform one "Significant Action: Attack", but that action may contain several Attacks (attack rolls) as per p75 (Dual Weapons, Full Auto).EldritchFire said:My reasoning behind one or the other—and not all—is when it says, "Attacking with weapons mounted on spacecraft uses the same rules as detailed in the Combat chapter, with the following exceptions…" (pg156 core). And per the combat chapter, each character can only attack once. Hence my view on one character, on attack.
EldritchFire said:snrdg121408 said:Morning EldritchFire,
Thank you for the additional comments answering my earlier concerns on HG 2e small craft firmpoints.
EldritchFire said:I agree with -Daniel-, it's not clearly intended at all. It's not listed that firmpoints cannot mount two or three weapons, and thus you are allowed to do so.
The only limitations are:
- Weapons of Medium range or less are reduced to Adjacent range.
- Weapons of greater range are reduced to Close range.
- A weapon on a Firmpoint may not have its range increased beyond Close by any means.
- Power requirements of the weapon are reduced by 25% (rounding up).
HG 2e Small Craft p. 24 "A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically forward-facing, but there is no requirement for this), but can be upgraded to a single (not double or triple) turret."
I consider a turret capable of holding a single weapon being installed on a firmpoint/fixed mount to be a limitation. Which is why I based my earlier example on mounting a single weapon on a small craft firmpoint.
There is nothing listed that limits the number of weapons. Heck, many sci-fi shows have craft with dual-mounted weapons on firmpoints: TIEs have two laser cannons, and Vipers have two mass accelerator cannons, death gliders have two staff cannons, etc.
I am a big fan of the original 1978 Battlestar Galactica which I recorded many of the episodes on VHS tape. Unfortunately, the tapes due to age get eaten by VHS players, however I did mange to pick up the original movie on DVD which I have reviewed. From what I can see the Viper has a weapon mounted on either side of the where the wings meet the fuselage.
Looking at the Battlestar Galactic RPG, pictures, illustrations, film clips, Wikipedia, and other web material from the 2004 version a Viper, depending on the model, appears to mount two or three weapons. Like the 1978 model two weapons are mounted where in the wings, and a third one i mounted on the Viper's tail.
All the material I have access to indicates to me that the weapons are in separate fixed mounts.
The TIE fighter I'll have to dig out my Star Wars stuff but IIRC the weapons appear to me to be in separate mounts on either side of the fighter's center line.
I could be mistaken but the weapons mounted in the wings of WW II fighters seem to have been fixed in place separately which made if easier to replace ones that malfunctioned or damaged.
While there are two weapons, I consider them only one firmpoint, since they are fired at the same time at the same target. With only one pilot, a Viper is unable to fire two different weapons, but if they're fire-linked (2 weapons in one firmpoint) then—by the rules—they both fire at the same time, at the same target, and grant the +1/die bonus to damage.
Unless, of course, I'm missing something and two different weapons on two different mountings can benefit from the 'same type = bonus damage' rule. But even then, the rules wouldn't support Stargate's F-302 with two railguns and 4 missiles. Or Star Wars' Y-wing with dual blaster cannons, dual ion cannons (no turret ions, to boot), and two proton torpedo launchers. Maybe Star Wars is a bad example, since almost all weapons are either dual- or quad-linked anyway.
Because of this, I assume that one firmpoint is one weapon system. Either one weapon, dual-linked or tri-linked (the latter case can be seen in Robotech's Zentradi fighters with a triple-laster cannon on the nose).
AnotherDilbert said:Pedantically I would say that you may only perform one "Significant Action: Attack", but that action may contain several Attacks (attack rolls) as per p75 (Dual Weapons, Full Auto).EldritchFire said:My reasoning behind one or the other—and not all—is when it says, "Attacking with weapons mounted on spacecraft uses the same rules as detailed in the Combat chapter, with the following exceptions…" (pg156 core). And per the combat chapter, each character can only attack once. Hence my view on one character, on attack.