Hi Pop Worlds

[Tobias]

And because sometimes you have to stop an argument,

And sometimes you don't. Most of the times, actually.

 

[EDG]

I'm kinda puzzled. Either my sarcastic remark above was wickedly effective. Or it was not recognized as sarcasm. What is it, now?

If you want to be sarcastic, then go elsewhere and do it.

 

[alex_greene]

Good idea. Let us all, individually or in a group, retire immediately from this discussion and venture over to the nearest pub.

There are other topics to discuss, and I think it's wisest to just let this one die.

Will the last one out please post a warning, along the lines of:-

Thread necromancers. DNR. Repeat. DNR.

 

[Tobias]

You do realize the irony that a - admittedly derailed - topic-oriented discussion on planetary engineering was actually back in its tracks until you decided to intervene with the condescending, snide remark you deleted in the meanwhile?

 

[alex_greene]

You now have your own thread devoted to planetary engineering and visualising the impossible (or not). And it will remain free of my presence: I am staying well clear of the topic.

And I don't do irony. Bad for my blood pressure.

 

[atpollard]

How do I make these unique, interesting and alien?

I've done the hyper-polluted Bladerunner style world, the 'world-city' Corsuscant type world and the Megacity One surrounded by irradiated wilderness type world.

What else?

And when the UPP suggests a garden world, how do you stop these looking like Earth or like a Star Trek set?

Low pop worlds, I have no problem, my worlds are alien, challenging and different....

I thought of one cultural difference potentially related to a pre-stellar TL High Population World.

Stuff. Specifically the value placed on stuff. Mass produced goods are plentiful, disposable and interchangeable - all of which increased material wealth at the cost of craftsmanship. A High Population world with a Right To Work attitude, might be more guild oriented with more craftsmen able to produce one-of-a-kind items. Not just the traditional 'Artwork for Export', but everyday items.

For example, at the starport bar on 99% of the worlds, you will find the local variant of some homogenius blend (made to strict uniform standards and mass produced for export) served in a non-descript transparent container identical to every other glass in every other bar on every world within 20 parsecs (all imported from the same Industrial World).

In THIS Starport Bar, each glass is unique and hand made (yet still virtually indestructible) produced by the local guild. The locals take pride in the ability to identify who made any particular piece without looking at the seal stamped on the bottom. ["That cup was made by Randall, He has his grandfather's flair for those Florals and Swirls."] There are three off-world brews for those who want such stuff, but HERE, each Pub prides itself on it's unique brew - made on the premisis and variable from season to season.

When and if trouble breaks out at the bar, the keeper wields a one of a kind Firearm handed down from his great Grandfather and still as good as the day it was made. None of those one-size-fits-all vanilla shotguns for HIS bar.

In short, there are no 'common' items. Everything costs more because it was hand made to last for generations. Everything has greater intrinsic value.

 

[rust]

In short, there are no 'common' items. Everything costs more because it was hand made to last for generations. Everything has greater intrinsic value.

This sounds much like the way the Droyne treat production.

 

[atpollard]

I admit to being more of a Proto-Traveller type of fan. The Imperium was too big with everything mapped beyond the borders for my taste. I like maps with a big white space that is as yet unexplored.

(Which is just an explanation for my ignorance on Droyne - little bird men that are descended from ancients right?)

 

[rust]

If I remember their description in GURPS Traveller right, the Droyne (the
same species as the Ancients, but not their descendants) have a Techni-
cian caste that crafts almost everything - including entire starships - more
or less "by hand", making each item unique.

The explanation of this was (again: if I remember it right) that each Droy-
ne community has the number of members of the different castes that
are required for the specific community, and that they have to be provi-
ded with meaningful work, because Droyne not needed by their commu-
nity commit suicide.

 

[atpollard]

BROADACRE CITY:

Frank Lloyd Wright proposed an 'anti-city' as a development form that decentralized all urbanism. The basic unit of Broadacre City was a 10 square kilometer unit containing houses, factories and farmland to support about 3000 people. This 'module' was to be spread over the landscape like a tapestry. The typical house is located on a 1 acre parcel of land that allows each family a garden and some 'country' in their life. It was designed around the automobile as THE means of transportation.

A population in the Billions could be supported on a land area smaller than Europe or Russia (3 million sq. kilometers per Billion people).

Imagine the High Population world as a vast blanket of Small Town farming communities. How is that for different than BladeRunner?

 

[Gaidheal]

That's interesting... do the figures stack up? (I'm too lazy to do the maths, this morning)

 

[Infojunky]

That's interesting... do the figures stack up? (I'm too lazy to do the maths, this morning)

Wright's Broadacre City looks nice on paper and in demonstration. It start's to break down in that it is a car centric dispersed model. One that increases the distance need to travel to meet the material needs of the the people within that system or once you apply central place theory you start to see the cracks. It assumes that each household practices significant amounts of agriculture within their place to meet their needs. Which wasn't a invalid model prior to 1940 in which the model was created. The model also has a much higher overhead for implementation in that each plot must absorb a much greater cost of installed infrastructure.

 

[atpollard]

All quite true.
However, at TL 8-9, modern decentralized infrastructure could allow each broadacre city to be nearly self sufficient. One super-walmart provides all the basic needs of a community. Mail Order Internet trade allows access to specialized goods from anywhere. Photovoltaics, Mixed Aquaculture/Hydroponics, Packaged sewage treatment plants, etc. all make the Broadacre City concept more feasable than it would have been in the 1970's.

It also lends itself to an unbreathable atmosphere (like tainted) where each 'city' could be an isolated dome. Air Rafts could eliminate the need for physical roads.

Less we think only in terms of a modern suburbia or future utopias, try painting it over with a survivalist mentality of fortified comminities looking out for their own and practicing the self-reliance that they preach.

Let's try an even more advanced TL, where manufacture and agriculture are both largely automated activities involving less than 1% of the workforce. Work involves 'knowledge' and 'telecommuting' as the norm. There is no city, because any one place is as good as another and 'companies' and 'communities' are primarily 'virtual'.