HELP ME, need tactics

D

Dizzy Vree

Mongoose
Hi, and sorry for a typical topic from a n00b that needs advice(but atleast i didnt put n00b in the subject)
Im playing a leauge game soon with a good mate of mine, in this leauge we must take a fleet that we have never used before(and in my case never seen used) and its blind fleet construction, hes got ISA ive got Dilgar(no ISDs if you havnt guessed), its 3 war and here are the fleets

Isa
Victory
4 Stuteeka war carriers(allies)

Dilgar
Mishakur
3 Garasoch
2 Tagrash
4 Ochlavita
1 Ochlavita Ki
2 Jahasaka-Vi

the Mishakur has Jha'Dur
the victory has sheriden, and aditional 2ad on the Lightning, precise on the mini-beam
(we all got to pick/make an admiral for our flagships, and 2 refits)


So here are my questions
1: how do i beat the ISA, from my eyes im gunna get creamed
2: any advice for my fleet in general
3: in the fleet book, it states that i can use my fighters as suicide, but it does not say they can not be recoverd by a fleet carrier, is this a mistake, or am i going to out-suicide gaim :D
4: is my fleet actualy 3 war, i made it up in about 10 miniuts using the fleet book

any advice would be apreciated, and the games on saturday, so i may post a battle report on this thread
 
Your fleet as far as I can see is not a legal 3 point war list, since you can only subslplit 1 point per level:

Youve got

1 Warship
5 Raid ships
7 Skirmish ships

Basically if you drop one Garasoch and take an extra Ochlavita then your legal. Though personally Id think about dropping the Ochlavitas and taking another 4 Tagraths....

As for getting hammered.... well I dunno. The carriers are pretty fragile and will get torn to bits by your forces but I doubt they will before theyve disgorged their fighters so Id just focuse EVERYTHING on the victory. It may be big and scary but putting all his points in one ship like that is going to be his undoing since all you need is a couple of decent crits on it to render it basically useless.

Not all good news though Im afraid as it seems your opponent has done his maths wrong too, he should actually have 8 Vree carriers for that 1 remaining war point.... (they still are VERY fragile though so you should be able to shred them with secondary weapons)
 
thanks, its the 1st time ive properly used the new FAP system, i got it a bit wrong.... and there not the skirmish vree carriers, there the raid level gaim ones
 
erm those are Gaim carriers (raid) so the enemy fleet is correct ;)

I'd swap the ochlavita's ASAP either more Targraths or more Jashakars (any variant)
 
howz about this then

Mishakur
Garasoch
Garasoch
Garasoch
Tagrath
Tagrath
Tagrath
Tagrath
2X Jashakar tae
2x jashakar vi

(id never propaly looked at the tagrath, im a vree player im a bit skirmish-fixated)
 
Hmm....OK....
Well, the first thing to say is don't try to win a fighter war - a war point's worth of gaim heavy carriers means that he can put out no less than 96 (!) Klikkita flights to your 38 dartfighter groups, and support them with Fleet Carrier the same as you, putting them on an even level 1-on-1 with thoruns (not to mention the photon bombs frying any fighters that aren't engaged).

To add insult to injury, you'll have 6 flights of ace ISA auroras and thuds flying off the Victory-class.

Now the good news - A stuteeka has 8 fighter wings, but takes a depressing three full turns to empty its launch bays (even with Scramble Scramble! - which is unlikely without a queen around) and they die like gnats in a hailstorm against decent firepower. You have 52 antiship missile tubes (hint, hint).

Forty-odd antiship missiles (it works out at about forty-one if you have any faith in statistics) should blast a war carrier into atoms on turn one, with well over a dozen klikkita flights still on board. If you're lucky, it'll explode and take several of the flights it launched down as well. It's the primary turn one target...also takes an initiative sink of the Victory.


By comparison, you'd be lucky to get a dozen missiles through the Victory-class destroyer's hefty armour and 6 interceptors....on top of which its adaptive armour means you get practically no benefit from your double damage missiles. You might get a critical....but one critical is highly unlikely to do anything on the grander scale and the ISA's elite crews mean it's not going to stay long. Save dealing with the Victory until the range closes and you can overwhelm its interceptors with pulsar and light bolter fire - then start concentrating heavy guns on it (because, as noted, once the Victory-class starts taking heavy damage 2/3 of his fleet is out of commission)

Your own fighters are best used defensively - stay close to your own fleet carriers for maximum protection; your twin-linked bolt cannons are shiny but diving into a gaim fighter swarm is likely to be a terminal experience - and with the Victory or stuteeka having significant flak, an antiship attack is probably doomed to fail. Staying back lets you use your insanely high speed to your advantage to initiate dogfights in areas where the gaim can't bring enough supporting flights in to help (don't try for throwing all the dartfighters into one flank, though - work out dogfights on a one or two flight basis. Big dogfights go on too long and the rest of the swarm will arrive, and too many of your flights in one area will attract photon bombs like a magnet)
 
Ah yes I see now (forgot Gaim were an option as allies now :P)

The second list you came up with is indeed legal and much improved :)

The Targrath was the cornerstone of the Diglar fleet in 1st edition and this is still the case in 2nd Ed (in fact to be frank the Tagrath might just have crossed the border from good to broken in 1st Ed (its fine now but still a fantastic ship). It's tough, quite fast and maneuverable and armed to the teeth.

Your opponent is not reliant on boresights (ok so theres the lightning cannon but if he fires it he's commiting suicide basically as you can then obliterate the victory with its inteceptors offline the following turn....) and most of his fleet is basically turreted so I wouldnt worry too much about initiative sinks. In fact I would suggest forming at least one Pentacon, maybe even two. You lose some initiative steps in movement (basically trading 5 moves for 2) but you will get to fire all 5 ships as one and thats a HELL of an alpha strike! (seriously, I dont care how many interceptors hes got, a full pentacon of Tagraths will nuke any ship below war level in one salvo).

As suggested, if its the Gaim carriers, kill them as soon as possible to knock out both their fleet carrier ability and take as many fighters with them in their bays as possible. You should be aiming to get into the Victories side arcs while doing this, and try not to get too close to it.

(I know I said kill the Vicky before but that was when I thought we were talking Vree carriers :P)

Basically the order of the day is: Dont worry too much about initiative at first. Nuke the carriers as fast as possible. Make good use of Pentacons. Dont launch fighters till the enemy ones are starting to get close. Most of your ships DO have AF guns but that wont be enough alone to hold off the massive swarm thats sure to be coming.

Once the carriers are gone, break any remaining squadrons up to force the Victory into a corner initiative wise and hammer it to scrap. It will take a while but youll get there in the end! Lastly, and crucially, if he fires his lighting cannon, EVER, you hit him with every single thing you have on the table next turn. He may still have adaptive armour but hes got no anti-fighter or interceptors. Hell he's even technically adrift and thus a valid mass driver target I believe (I'll have to check that one...)
 
The Gaim carryers are only hull 4. With the ammount of missile racks you are carrying you should be able to kill 2 in the first turn easily. Once your bolters come into play they wont stand a chance. Wipe them out early to get rid of the fighter support and to let you swarm the Victory.

Don't launch fighters in turn 1, the'll just disapear to photon bombs and a large wave of fighters will be more useful against the Victory later in the game.

Try to get the Victory to fire it's lightening gun (stich a big juice target in front of it). Once it has it's a floating target for a turn, and is ripe for boarding with its mighty 6 troops.
 
The more I look at it the more I don't see how this battle could be any problem for you.
As said on turn one blow at least 2 carriers up with missiles (hell with All Power to the Engines you have a 28" bolter range with your targraths, kill them all if possible :D )

Keep your fighters in their bays until turn 2 or 3 and swarm the victory... easy win :twisted:
 
thanks for all the help guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

, i might need it, the guy im playing is good, but can get a bit irational, i think if i put the mishakur infront of the VCD he MAY boresight it, then byby vicky,
 
If you can get him to blow that Lightning cannon shot on a Tagrath though, so much the better ;) The Mishakur may be a tempting target but a lightning cannon with 2 extra AD IS going to blow it to bits ;) (and remember its worth half a victory itself!)

But still, take out the carriers fast, dont launch fighters till the Gaim are gone and make full use of the pentacon rule and you should do fine :)
 
That lightning cannon is going to REALLY hurt! If he spent his refit on it then he surely means to use it. I'd have put it on the front INL myself :D
 
Don't forget, you can use a Pentacon as an initiative sink; when it's time to activate it, you can skip it and force the enemy to move again. You do lose init sinks, but you don't lose as much as anyone else does with squadrons.

Otherwise, looks like you have it sewn up neatly. I look forward to the AAR. 8)
 
locarno24 said:
Now the good news - A stuteeka has 8 fighter wings, but takes a depressing three full turns to empty its launch bays (even with Scramble Scramble! - which is unlikely without a queen around) and they die like gnats in a hailstorm against decent firepower. You have 52 antiship missile tubes (hint, hint).

Forty-odd antiship missiles (it works out at about forty-one if you have any faith in statistics) should blast a war carrier into atoms on turn one, with well over a dozen klikkita flights still on board. If you're lucky, it'll explode and take several of the flights it launched down as well. It's the primary turn one target...also takes an initiative sink of the Victory.
Click to expand...

he will have 48 launched at the start, fleetcarriers can start with half their complement launched, and it will only take 2 more turns to launch the rest even without scrambling
 
It's half ;) but still I see no problems whatsoever...
those carrier should be dead turn 1 or turn 2 at the very last.

Remember he has one big laser each turn.... 1 (!)
 
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