Harbringer Ships
- Thread starter talonspiritcat
- Start date
talonspiritcat
Mongoose
How about some rules for the ships now?
THIRDSPACE THE HARBINGERS SERVANTS OF THE ONE
Ship Special Rules:
Energy Siphon: A successful hit causes no damage, but Target Ship cannot use any weapon system, nor use any Special Actions for the rest of this round and for the subsequent round. In addition, ships suffer –3 to any Crew Quality checks.
The Eyes of the One: The weak technologies of the Younger Races are no match for the Ancients. The Harbringers ignore the Stealth of any target.
Crew: The Harbringers are considered to have a Crew Quality of 8. Crew and Troops are considered interchangeable.
The Hunger: The Harbringers make extensive use of automated vessels, but their Seraphim and Throneships can be boarded, and may initiate Boarding Actions. During Boarding Actions, Harbringers may roll 3 dice and select the best one, as well as rolling a bonus Mindslaver attack. When subject to any Critical Hits which affect Crew, Harbringers are immune when rolling 4+.
Harbringers may initiate Boarding actions by moving into contact with enemy ships and succeeding in an opposed Crew Check; if successful, the ships remain in contact until the Harbringers choose to release it.
Redundant Systems: The Harbringers take damage as normal, but Critical Hits are automatically repaired in the End Phase of the turn after which they affected. Critical Hits to Vital Systems are also repaired at this time.
Mindslaver: Thirdspace capital ships are crewed by the servants of the One, who are some of the most potent and insidious telepaths of any species. Each turn they may attempt to attack the minds of the crew of one ship within 12". Make an opposed Crew Quality check - for each point the Thirdspace ship wins by, one Troops is generated on the enemy vessel from mindslaved crew, or mental control of the living ship's systems, count these as a normal Troops unit attacking from breaching pods. This attack may be used multiple times on one vessel. This may be used even on enemy vessels with no crew value/those which cannot normally be boarded, such as Vorlon ships or Ancients (in which case there are no enemy Troops to oppose them!). All other normal boarding action rules are used.
Special Actions: Thirdspace Capital Ships may use any Special Actions except All Hands to Deck!, Close Blast Doors and Activate Defense Grid!, Run Silent! and Initiate Jump Point!
THIRDSPACE CHERUBIUM INVASION FRIGATE
LEVEL: Raid SPEED: 12"
TURNS: 2/90 HULL: 5
DAMAGE: 15/4 DOGFIGHT: 0
SPECIAL: Agile, Atmospheric, Dodge 3+, Fighter, Flight Computer, Self Repair 1, Shield 4/2
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
THIRDSPACE NEPHILIM-CLASS DESTROYER
LEVEL: Battle SPEED: 8”
TURNS: 2/45 HULL: 6
DAMAGE: 50/8 IN SERVICE: Primordial
SPECIALS: Agile, Atmospheric, Dodge 3+, Flight Computer, Mindslaver, Self Repair 3, Shield 6/3
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12” T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
THIRDSPACE SERAPHIM-CLASS DREADOUGHT
LEVEL: War SPEED: 6”
TURNS: 1/45 HULL: 6
DAMAGE: 100/9 CREW/TROOPS: 20/3
SPECIALS: Advanced Anti-Fighter 4, Atmospheric, Command +2, Dodge 3+, Flight Computer, Lumbering, Mindslaver, Self Repair 2D6, Shield 12/D6
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Lightbringer Array 30” F 6AD Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12” T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
THIRDSPACE THRONE-CLASS GATESHIP
LEVEL: Armageddon SPEED: 4”
TURNS: 1/45 HULL: 5
DAMAGE: 200/15 CREW/TROOPS: 40/5
SPECIALS: Advanced Anti-Fighter 8, Command +4, Flight Computer, Lumbering, Mindslaver, Self Repair 3D6, Shield 12/2D6
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Lightbringer Array 30” F 6AD Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Lightbringer Array 30” P 6AD Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Lightbringer Array 30” P 6AD Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12” T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
Light Energy Siphon 12” T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
I made some stats for Star Wars Starship Battles and it wasn't pretty...Mindslaver is just too nasty.
THIRDSPACE THE HARBINGERS SERVANTS OF THE ONE
Ship Special Rules:
Energy Siphon: A successful hit causes no damage, but Target Ship cannot use any weapon system, nor use any Special Actions for the rest of this round and for the subsequent round. In addition, ships suffer –3 to any Crew Quality checks.
The Eyes of the One: The weak technologies of the Younger Races are no match for the Ancients. The Harbringers ignore the Stealth of any target.
Crew: The Harbringers are considered to have a Crew Quality of 8. Crew and Troops are considered interchangeable.
The Hunger: The Harbringers make extensive use of automated vessels, but their Seraphim and Throneships can be boarded, and may initiate Boarding Actions. During Boarding Actions, Harbringers may roll 3 dice and select the best one, as well as rolling a bonus Mindslaver attack. When subject to any Critical Hits which affect Crew, Harbringers are immune when rolling 4+.
Harbringers may initiate Boarding actions by moving into contact with enemy ships and succeeding in an opposed Crew Check; if successful, the ships remain in contact until the Harbringers choose to release it.
Redundant Systems: The Harbringers take damage as normal, but Critical Hits are automatically repaired in the End Phase of the turn after which they affected. Critical Hits to Vital Systems are also repaired at this time.
Mindslaver: Thirdspace capital ships are crewed by the servants of the One, who are some of the most potent and insidious telepaths of any species. Each turn they may attempt to attack the minds of the crew of one ship within 12". Make an opposed Crew Quality check - for each point the Thirdspace ship wins by, one Troops is generated on the enemy vessel from mindslaved crew, or mental control of the living ship's systems, count these as a normal Troops unit attacking from breaching pods. This attack may be used multiple times on one vessel. This may be used even on enemy vessels with no crew value/those which cannot normally be boarded, such as Vorlon ships or Ancients (in which case there are no enemy Troops to oppose them!). All other normal boarding action rules are used.
Special Actions: Thirdspace Capital Ships may use any Special Actions except All Hands to Deck!, Close Blast Doors and Activate Defense Grid!, Run Silent! and Initiate Jump Point!
THIRDSPACE CHERUBIUM INVASION FRIGATE
LEVEL: Raid SPEED: 12"
TURNS: 2/90 HULL: 5
DAMAGE: 15/4 DOGFIGHT: 0
SPECIAL: Agile, Atmospheric, Dodge 3+, Fighter, Flight Computer, Self Repair 1, Shield 4/2
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
THIRDSPACE NEPHILIM-CLASS DESTROYER
LEVEL: Battle SPEED: 8”
TURNS: 2/45 HULL: 6
DAMAGE: 50/8 IN SERVICE: Primordial
SPECIALS: Agile, Atmospheric, Dodge 3+, Flight Computer, Mindslaver, Self Repair 3, Shield 6/3
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12” T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
THIRDSPACE SERAPHIM-CLASS DREADOUGHT
LEVEL: War SPEED: 6”
TURNS: 1/45 HULL: 6
DAMAGE: 100/9 CREW/TROOPS: 20/3
SPECIALS: Advanced Anti-Fighter 4, Atmospheric, Command +2, Dodge 3+, Flight Computer, Lumbering, Mindslaver, Self Repair 2D6, Shield 12/D6
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Lightbringer Array 30” F 6AD Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12” T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
THIRDSPACE THRONE-CLASS GATESHIP
LEVEL: Armageddon SPEED: 4”
TURNS: 1/45 HULL: 5
DAMAGE: 200/15 CREW/TROOPS: 40/5
SPECIALS: Advanced Anti-Fighter 8, Command +4, Flight Computer, Lumbering, Mindslaver, Self Repair 3D6, Shield 12/2D6
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Lightbringer Array 30” F 6AD Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Lightbringer Array 30” P 6AD Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" P 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Lightbringer Array 30” P 6AD Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12" S 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12” T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
Light Energy Siphon 12” T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
I made some stats for Star Wars Starship Battles and it wasn't pretty...Mindslaver is just too nasty.
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
CQ of 8 now that is too high max is 5
talonspiritcat
Mongoose
Lt.Derina said:
I thought I read in a fleet book that some race could be considered to be a 7...
Anyway, they are supposed to be over the top...these were beings who gave the First Ones a centuries long war across the galaxy.
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
try CQ 5 with all ships emit a 8 inch telepathic enslavement around the ships, opposing ships must pass a CQ of 8 to throw off the shackles of enslavement.
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
I put my Shadow fleet on the table to take photos of and 3 of the gamers said "Im not playing you with that lot."
my responce was "Im only taking photos."
my responce was "Im only taking photos."
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Lt.Derina said:
Why is that relevent to this thread? :?
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
over powereing
Ripple said:
Well the RPG line keeps it the same, Kirishiac being the yellow ball with the spikes and Mindriders with the small volcano one. Quite a few things have changed for the better I believe... I mean the Psi Corps Hunter was originally in the Shadow section and classed as a Shadow ship that was excavated but that changed now and its Humanitys attempts at reverse engineering Shadowtech so there are some good changes personally I think.
talonspiritcat
Mongoose
Fleet Lists says the First Ones have crew quality of 7...anyway, these are rough stats in progress. The simulations I've run so far do tend to be massively weighted in the Harbringer's advantage.
GhostRecon
Mongoose
Ulkesh said:
If Mongoose is wrong, why does Lorien say the Lava-Volcano ship is from the Kirishiac, instead of the Mindriders in the series?
He specifically calls the guys in the Volcano-ship the Kirishiac, when he, Ivanova, and Marcus finally find them, saying they havn't spoken to anyone in a long time.
Actually just went and watched the episode where it arrives... and he never mentions the kirishiac... he doesn't name them at all. He does say they are almost as old as the Vorlons, that they haven't talked to anyone outside their race in centuries and that they will remember him. Ivanova mentions that they already have five, which is interesting as the volcano looking ship should have been the sixth, but we only see five arrive at Coriana 6.
As far as I know the only First One ever named is the Walker... and that is the name give to it by the Narn, not it's actual name. Lorien never mentions the name of his race either, at least as far as I've watched so far, though he talks about some of them dieing from disease or injury or going beyond the rim. So there should be six first ones, Lorien's race and the Vorlons and the Shadows from that era.
So no, mongoose got it wrong in Arm. and in the Fleet book, the RPG book was open to interpretation I guess when I looked at in in the store.
Ripple
As far as I know the only First One ever named is the Walker... and that is the name give to it by the Narn, not it's actual name. Lorien never mentions the name of his race either, at least as far as I've watched so far, though he talks about some of them dieing from disease or injury or going beyond the rim. So there should be six first ones, Lorien's race and the Vorlons and the Shadows from that era.
So no, mongoose got it wrong in Arm. and in the Fleet book, the RPG book was open to interpretation I guess when I looked at in in the store.
Ripple
Hi there,
I was about to ask about concepts for Harbringer ships when I came across 'talonspiritcat' post.... Ok maybe over powerful, but, to read the backround on them - understandable (see rpg 'Thirdspace' and 'Darkness and Light'), he has made an effort to give them rules , might I suggest using them as building blocks to come up with an agreeable set of rules
(maybe official one day). I'm sure if everyone pitches in this is achievable.
I guess I'll put my money where my mouth is and start...
THIRDSPACE CHERUBIUM INVASION FRIGATE
LEVEL: Raid SPEED: 12"
TURNS: 2/90 HULL: 5
DAMAGE: 15/4
SPECIAL: Agile, Atmospheric, Dodge 4+, Flight Computer, Self Repair 1, Shield 8/2, Mindslaver
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
I would probably ignore ‘The Eyes of the One: The weak technologies of the Younger Races are no match for the Ancients. The Harbringers ignore the Stealth of any target.’
As the other ancients get +1 towards stealth, why not simply make Harbringer’s +2
I also lost the fighter trait as it states ‘Frigate’ not fighter (and comparable to a Whitesta) in the Harbringer background, why use fighters when use just use the other races fighters as cannon fodder ‘Mindslaver’ (opposed crew quality check for control of fighter within 12”- or Vorlon and Shadow for that matter, historically – once out of 12” another check each turn to regain their senses – for a bit of unpredictability)
Lastly I would go with crew quality 7 – ‘Fleet Lists says the First Ones have crew quality of 7’ – this is harsh enough, anything higher and it bums out the game (and your opponent!)
No disrespect intended, just an observation…feel free to discect
By the bye, as soon as I’ve painted my 12 Armageddon pts of vorlons and 14 of shadows I will scratchbuild the Harbringer ships and post with a step by step guide (Cherubs easy – others, problematic, but I’m working on)
I was about to ask about concepts for Harbringer ships when I came across 'talonspiritcat' post.... Ok maybe over powerful, but, to read the backround on them - understandable (see rpg 'Thirdspace' and 'Darkness and Light'), he has made an effort to give them rules , might I suggest using them as building blocks to come up with an agreeable set of rules
(maybe official one day). I'm sure if everyone pitches in this is achievable.
I guess I'll put my money where my mouth is and start...
THIRDSPACE CHERUBIUM INVASION FRIGATE
LEVEL: Raid SPEED: 12"
TURNS: 2/90 HULL: 5
DAMAGE: 15/4
SPECIAL: Agile, Atmospheric, Dodge 4+, Flight Computer, Self Repair 1, Shield 8/2, Mindslaver
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Hellfire Lancet 12" F 4AD Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
I would probably ignore ‘The Eyes of the One: The weak technologies of the Younger Races are no match for the Ancients. The Harbringers ignore the Stealth of any target.’
As the other ancients get +1 towards stealth, why not simply make Harbringer’s +2
I also lost the fighter trait as it states ‘Frigate’ not fighter (and comparable to a Whitesta) in the Harbringer background, why use fighters when use just use the other races fighters as cannon fodder ‘Mindslaver’ (opposed crew quality check for control of fighter within 12”- or Vorlon and Shadow for that matter, historically – once out of 12” another check each turn to regain their senses – for a bit of unpredictability)
Lastly I would go with crew quality 7 – ‘Fleet Lists says the First Ones have crew quality of 7’ – this is harsh enough, anything higher and it bums out the game (and your opponent!)
No disrespect intended, just an observation…feel free to discect
By the bye, as soon as I’ve painted my 12 Armageddon pts of vorlons and 14 of shadows I will scratchbuild the Harbringer ships and post with a step by step guide (Cherubs easy – others, problematic, but I’m working on)
talonspiritcat
Mongoose
cool, I said my version of the Harbringer Rules were open to debate.... I've played them a few times now and they are simply nasty. Horribly unbalanced and uber. They need to be reined in.
yeah, that would work too
I was thinking they were fairly maneuverable--fighterlike--but perhaps too much so.
true enough
Now this I would like to see. So far I've had no luck designing decent-looking ships.
Atreyeux said:
yeah, that would work too
Atreyeux said:
I was thinking they were fairly maneuverable--fighterlike--but perhaps too much so.
Atreyeux said:
true enough
Atreyeux said:
Now this I would like to see. So far I've had no luck designing decent-looking ships.
Ok so I went over these and made changes that I thought would work and why. Anyway just my personal take.
THIRDSPACE THE HARBINGERS SERVANTS OF THE ONE
Ship Special Rules:
Energy Siphon: A successful hit causes no damage, but Target Ship cannot use any weapon system, nor use any Special Actions for the rest of this round and for the subsequent round. In addition, ships suffer –3 to any Crew Quality checks.
The Eyes of the One: The weak technologies of the Younger Races are no match for the Ancients. The Harbringers get a +2 bonus when trying to circumvent an enemy ship’s stealth.
*I brought this down to a compromise between Vorlon/Shadow and First Ones abilities.
Crew: The Harbringers are considered to have a Crew Quality of 6. Crew and Troops are considered interchangeable.
*Dropped them to crew 6 as while they are one of the ancient races given that there numbers are more like the Vorlons or Shadows as opposed to the other First Ones, 7 seemed to high.
The Hunger: The Harbringers make extensive use of automated vessels, but their Seraphim and Throneships can be boarded, and may initiate Boarding Actions. During Boarding Actions, Harbringers may roll 3 dice and select the best one. When subject to any damage Harbringers are immune to crew loss on a roll of 4+.
Harbringers may initiate Boarding actions by moving into contact with enemy ships and succeeding in an opposed Crew Check; if successful, the ships remain in contact until the Harbringers choose to release it.
*I changed this a bit so that they had a chance to never lose crew otherwise they could be taken out by a large weapon system in one shot regardless of other factors.
Redundant Systems: The Harbringers take damage as normal, but Critical Hits are automatically repaired in the End Phase of the turn after which they affected. Critical Hits to Vital Systems are also repaired at this time.
Mindslaver: I would lose this rule.
Special Actions: Thirdspace Capital Ships may use any Special Actions except All Hands to Deck!, Close Blast Doors and Activate Defense Grid!, Run Silent! and Initiate Jump Point!
THIRDSPACE CHERUBIUM INVASION FRIGATE
LEVEL: Raid SPEED: 12
TURNS: 2/90 HULL: 5
DAMAGE: 15/4 IN SERVICE: Primordial SPECIAL: Agile, Atmospheric, Dodge 3+, Flight Computer, Self Repair 1, Shield 4/2, Scout
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Hellfire Lancet 8 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
*As this is supposed to be their equivalent of a heavy fighter I believe it should have a shorter ranged weapon than the standard ship. I also gave this the scout rule as I see this ship fulfilling a scouting role in the Harbringer fleet.
THIRDSPACE NEPHILIM-CLASS DESTROYER
LEVEL: Battle SPEED: 8
TURNS: 2/45 HULL: 6
DAMAGE: 50/8 IN SERVICE: Primordial
SPECIALS: Agile, Atmospheric, Dodge 5+, Flight Computer, Self Repair 3, Shield 6/3
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12 T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
*Changed the Dodge to a 5+. At battle level a 3+ on a ship this large is very excessive. Even with a 5+ I think this ship will still be over powered.
THIRDSPACE SERAPHIM-CLASS DREADOUGHT
LEVEL: Armageddon SPEED: 6
TURNS: 1/45 HULL: 6
DAMAGE: 100/15 CREW/TROOPS: 20/3
SPECIALS: Advanced Anti-Fighter 4, Atmospheric, Command +2, Flight Computer, Lumbering, Self Repair 2D6, Shield 12/4
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Lightbringer Array 30 F 6 Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12 T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
*I removed dodge altogether as a lumbering ship cannot dodge. It doesn’t make sense. I moved it up to Armageddon level as well as it has more firepower than a Vorlon Heavy Cruiser by a significant amount. I also changed the shields from regenerating d6 to a flat 4 as this will make them consistent.
THIRDSPACE THRONE-CLASS GATESHIP
LEVEL: Ancient SPEED: 4
TURNS: 1/45 HULL: 5
DAMAGE: 200/15 CREW/TROOPS: 40/5
SPECIALS: Advanced Anti-Fighter 8, Command +4, Flight Computer, Lumbering, Self Repair 3D6, Shield 12/2D6
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Lightbringer Array 30 F 6 Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Lightbringer Array 30 P 6 Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Lightbringer Array 30 S 6 Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12 T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
Light Energy Siphon 12 T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
*I moved this up to priority ancient as there really isn’t anything else you can do with it’s weapon loadout staying the way that it is. Three non bore lightning cannons is wrong, no way around that.
THIRDSPACE THE HARBINGERS SERVANTS OF THE ONE
Ship Special Rules:
Energy Siphon: A successful hit causes no damage, but Target Ship cannot use any weapon system, nor use any Special Actions for the rest of this round and for the subsequent round. In addition, ships suffer –3 to any Crew Quality checks.
The Eyes of the One: The weak technologies of the Younger Races are no match for the Ancients. The Harbringers get a +2 bonus when trying to circumvent an enemy ship’s stealth.
*I brought this down to a compromise between Vorlon/Shadow and First Ones abilities.
Crew: The Harbringers are considered to have a Crew Quality of 6. Crew and Troops are considered interchangeable.
*Dropped them to crew 6 as while they are one of the ancient races given that there numbers are more like the Vorlons or Shadows as opposed to the other First Ones, 7 seemed to high.
The Hunger: The Harbringers make extensive use of automated vessels, but their Seraphim and Throneships can be boarded, and may initiate Boarding Actions. During Boarding Actions, Harbringers may roll 3 dice and select the best one. When subject to any damage Harbringers are immune to crew loss on a roll of 4+.
Harbringers may initiate Boarding actions by moving into contact with enemy ships and succeeding in an opposed Crew Check; if successful, the ships remain in contact until the Harbringers choose to release it.
*I changed this a bit so that they had a chance to never lose crew otherwise they could be taken out by a large weapon system in one shot regardless of other factors.
Redundant Systems: The Harbringers take damage as normal, but Critical Hits are automatically repaired in the End Phase of the turn after which they affected. Critical Hits to Vital Systems are also repaired at this time.
Mindslaver: I would lose this rule.
Special Actions: Thirdspace Capital Ships may use any Special Actions except All Hands to Deck!, Close Blast Doors and Activate Defense Grid!, Run Silent! and Initiate Jump Point!
THIRDSPACE CHERUBIUM INVASION FRIGATE
LEVEL: Raid SPEED: 12
TURNS: 2/90 HULL: 5
DAMAGE: 15/4 IN SERVICE: Primordial SPECIAL: Agile, Atmospheric, Dodge 3+, Flight Computer, Self Repair 1, Shield 4/2, Scout
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Hellfire Lancet 8 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
*As this is supposed to be their equivalent of a heavy fighter I believe it should have a shorter ranged weapon than the standard ship. I also gave this the scout rule as I see this ship fulfilling a scouting role in the Harbringer fleet.
THIRDSPACE NEPHILIM-CLASS DESTROYER
LEVEL: Battle SPEED: 8
TURNS: 2/45 HULL: 6
DAMAGE: 50/8 IN SERVICE: Primordial
SPECIALS: Agile, Atmospheric, Dodge 5+, Flight Computer, Self Repair 3, Shield 6/3
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12 T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
*Changed the Dodge to a 5+. At battle level a 3+ on a ship this large is very excessive. Even with a 5+ I think this ship will still be over powered.
THIRDSPACE SERAPHIM-CLASS DREADOUGHT
LEVEL: Armageddon SPEED: 6
TURNS: 1/45 HULL: 6
DAMAGE: 100/15 CREW/TROOPS: 20/3
SPECIALS: Advanced Anti-Fighter 4, Atmospheric, Command +2, Flight Computer, Lumbering, Self Repair 2D6, Shield 12/4
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Lightbringer Array 30 F 6 Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12 T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
*I removed dodge altogether as a lumbering ship cannot dodge. It doesn’t make sense. I moved it up to Armageddon level as well as it has more firepower than a Vorlon Heavy Cruiser by a significant amount. I also changed the shields from regenerating d6 to a flat 4 as this will make them consistent.
THIRDSPACE THRONE-CLASS GATESHIP
LEVEL: Ancient SPEED: 4
TURNS: 1/45 HULL: 5
DAMAGE: 200/15 CREW/TROOPS: 40/5
SPECIALS: Advanced Anti-Fighter 8, Command +4, Flight Computer, Lumbering, Self Repair 3D6, Shield 12/2D6
IN SERVICE: Primordial
WEAPON RANGE ARC AD SPECIAL
Lightbringer Array 30 F 6 Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 F 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Lightbringer Array 30 P 6 Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 P 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Lightbringer Array 30 S 6 Beam, Precise, Quad Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage, TL Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Hellfire Lancet 12 S 4 Precise, SAP, Triple Damage
Light Energy Siphon 12 T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
Light Energy Siphon 12 T 3 SAP, Comm Disruptor
*I moved this up to priority ancient as there really isn’t anything else you can do with it’s weapon loadout staying the way that it is. Three non bore lightning cannons is wrong, no way around that.
Tarankov your Ancient level shiop has 2 port light bringer arrays... I assume you meant one of those too be a starboard weapon system...
Another querry is if you intended to fit in a ship at war level... it seems odd that there would be that gap in fleet design...
honestly i think your larger ships should be brough down a level each....
they have a bit more firepower than equivalent vorlon/shadow ships, but it's significantly less per arc, and rather short ranged barring the lightbringer arrays...
I think that the throne and seraphim the armageddon and war levels respectively rather well...
Younger races would be forced into using main weapons systems and staying out of 12 inches, or driving through to get into rear arcs... perhaps if they didn't repair critical's automaticaly, like other ancients this wouold bring them to a more manageable level, for the younger races, as they would then be able to slip take advantage of the movement criticals to get into rear arcs/stay away from the short ranged weapons.... (though i guess i see why they actually have it....)
Why did you give comms disruptor to the energy siphons? that doesn't really do anything as that's an abbai special rule, just leave the energy siphons with the energy siphon rule listed in thier special rules section.
That aside I like the changes....
Another querry is if you intended to fit in a ship at war level... it seems odd that there would be that gap in fleet design...
honestly i think your larger ships should be brough down a level each....
they have a bit more firepower than equivalent vorlon/shadow ships, but it's significantly less per arc, and rather short ranged barring the lightbringer arrays...
I think that the throne and seraphim the armageddon and war levels respectively rather well...
Younger races would be forced into using main weapons systems and staying out of 12 inches, or driving through to get into rear arcs... perhaps if they didn't repair critical's automaticaly, like other ancients this wouold bring them to a more manageable level, for the younger races, as they would then be able to slip take advantage of the movement criticals to get into rear arcs/stay away from the short ranged weapons.... (though i guess i see why they actually have it....)
Why did you give comms disruptor to the energy siphons? that doesn't really do anything as that's an abbai special rule, just leave the energy siphons with the energy siphon rule listed in thier special rules section.
That aside I like the changes....
I didn't notice the ship having that twice on port, I just copied and edited I'll edit that...
For the power levels I took them up because I believe that they are significantly more powerful than the lower levels would warrant. I believe that a Seraphim is on par with a Vorlon Heavy Cruiser so that is why I bumped that up to Armageddon level. And the Gateship can easily rip apart a fleet of the younger races. If you compare it to the other Ancient level ships it is easily on par with them. Rather than bring the ships power levels down I tried to keep them closer to the same and simply put them in the class where I felt that they belonged. I guess where it really comes down to is do you think that they are weak enough that they can be brought down a level without further changes or do you think that they simply need weaker ship to match realistic gameplay levels. I was thinking why not add another ship in for a war level. Either that or I believe that the top two need to be brought down in power. I'll see about getting some play testing in on these and see what other people here think.
I didn't add the comms disrupter. I just copied it from the original.
Edit: About comms disrupters. I believe he meant it to signify that the Syphon is pretty much just an upgraded comms disrupter. That is my take on it anyway. I guess I should have clarified that.
For the power levels I took them up because I believe that they are significantly more powerful than the lower levels would warrant. I believe that a Seraphim is on par with a Vorlon Heavy Cruiser so that is why I bumped that up to Armageddon level. And the Gateship can easily rip apart a fleet of the younger races. If you compare it to the other Ancient level ships it is easily on par with them. Rather than bring the ships power levels down I tried to keep them closer to the same and simply put them in the class where I felt that they belonged. I guess where it really comes down to is do you think that they are weak enough that they can be brought down a level without further changes or do you think that they simply need weaker ship to match realistic gameplay levels. I was thinking why not add another ship in for a war level. Either that or I believe that the top two need to be brought down in power. I'll see about getting some play testing in on these and see what other people here think.
I didn't add the comms disrupter. I just copied it from the original.
Edit: About comms disrupters. I believe he meant it to signify that the Syphon is pretty much just an upgraded comms disrupter. That is my take on it anyway. I guess I should have clarified that.
