Harbringer Ships
- Thread starter talonspiritcat
- Start date
talonspiritcat
Mongoose
Ulkesh said:
The Xu-ha?
cadno ap annwn
Mongoose
Well I'm not a fantastic person when it comes to rules (usually pick things up as I go along). The one thing that I noted though was people saying about shorter ranged weapons in regards to third space. I'm a big fan of the third space movie and noted that the third space fighter class vessel (I apologise for not knowing names 
) fire at quite a distance. If I'm not mistaken they have most of the younger races ships ranged at one point.
The other factor is that they had considerably more powerful shields than other races featured in B5. Look how often a white star had to hit just a lowly little fighter to destroy it. But then once the shields were down they seem to get blown apart rather easily.
Maybe a way at looking at these ships is to think along the lines of very good technology but poor hull design. The weapon systems could be amazing, their shields top notch (perhaps better than shadows) but the hull values should be kept very low. I know in terms of game play it would make them a nightmare, but if you remove dodge from them they suddenly fall prey to simple firepower.
Lastly I had an idea for the telepathic control the third space race had over the other races. You could easily transplant the 'telepathic jamming' from the shadows and just slightly rewrite it. The concept would be simple, if successful the control would mean the ships crew would be fighting each other and the ship would be unable to do anything for that turn. Either that or you could force a player to roll on the crew damage table as casualties would be an obvious side effect.
Just a few thoughts and I hope I'm not stepping on anyones toes, just I love the third space race (even though I don't know a great deal about them).
Cadno
EDITED NOTE - Sorry I didn't see talonspiritcats (you can slap me now lol) idea for the telepathic control.
) fire at quite a distance. If I'm not mistaken they have most of the younger races ships ranged at one point.The other factor is that they had considerably more powerful shields than other races featured in B5. Look how often a white star had to hit just a lowly little fighter to destroy it. But then once the shields were down they seem to get blown apart rather easily.
Maybe a way at looking at these ships is to think along the lines of very good technology but poor hull design. The weapon systems could be amazing, their shields top notch (perhaps better than shadows) but the hull values should be kept very low. I know in terms of game play it would make them a nightmare, but if you remove dodge from them they suddenly fall prey to simple firepower.
Lastly I had an idea for the telepathic control the third space race had over the other races. You could easily transplant the 'telepathic jamming' from the shadows and just slightly rewrite it. The concept would be simple, if successful the control would mean the ships crew would be fighting each other and the ship would be unable to do anything for that turn. Either that or you could force a player to roll on the crew damage table as casualties would be an obvious side effect.
Just a few thoughts and I hope I'm not stepping on anyones toes, just I love the third space race (even though I don't know a great deal about them).
Cadno
EDITED NOTE - Sorry I didn't see talonspiritcats (you can slap me now lol) idea for the telepathic control.
I probably should just sit down and watch the movie it's been quite a while. I only remember seeing two ships in the movie so I don't even know what the other two ships would look like. I might be wrong(which goes back to needing to watch the movie). I'm going to sculpt up some models for the fighter and the ship with the ball thing in the back. Might have them done by friday.
talonspiritcat
Mongoose
cadno ap annwn said:
Yeah, that would be an idea too...so any guesses for shield strength? 30 maybe
cadno ap annwn said:
I like your idea too...maybe some combination of the two....
Mindslaver: Thirdspace capital ships are crewed by the servants of the One, who are some of the most potent and insidious telepaths of any species. Each turn they may attempt to attack the minds of the crew of one ship within 12". Make an opposed Crew Quality check - for each point the Thirdspace ship wins by, one Troop is generated on the enemy vessel from mindslaved crew, or mental control of the living ship's systems, count these as a normal Troop unit attacking from breaching pods. This attack may be used multiple times on one vessel. This may be used even on enemy vessels with no crew value/those which cannot normally be boarded, such as Vorlon ships or Ancients (in which case there are no enemy Troops to oppose them!). All other normal boarding action rules are used.
and then add a mandatory Casualities roll at turn's end?
Taronkov said:
I believe we have only seen the Cherebium fighter and the Seraphim dreadnought.
The Throneships are described as conical...I picture them looking something like the Planetkiller from the original Star Trek's Doomsday Machine.
The
cadno ap annwn
Mongoose
talonspiritcat said:
I like that idea, but the only problem I can see is that it would make the rule extremely complicated in games involving young and old races. I like what you said about living ships systems. Maybe if the mindslaver roll is successful against such vessels it could force the player to make a random roll and a particular ship system can not be used for that turn. So in effect you could shut down engines, weapons etc.
Just an idea there
As for the shields, depends on the ship size really, I'm no expert there to be honest, perhaps if some of us play test what is already here we could come up with a solution. I do know one thing though, the hull would have to similar to some of the younger races in order to balance things out, I'd go as far as even saying two thirds of them.
My last note is a query, does anyone have some good shots of the various harbringer ships?
Reason I'm asking is I'd love to have a crack at building a few myself. I'm not fantastic, but I have enough bits laying around to give it a shot
Cadno
talonspiritcat
Mongoose
REVISED
Mindslaver: Thirdspace capital ships are crewed by the servants of the One, who are some of the most potent and insidious telepaths of any species. Each turn they may attempt to attack the minds of the crew of one ship within 12". Make an opposed Crew Quality check - for each point the Thirdspace ship wins by, targeted Ship suffers 1 Casualty Critical Roll and and may not take any actions for the remainder of turn (while the loyal crew fights to regain control).
You can always google for Thirdspace ships...they're about as good as what you find in the official rulebook.
As an aside, I still can't believe that the Shadow Vorlon factbook has no picture of a Shadow Sentient!!!!!
Mindslaver: Thirdspace capital ships are crewed by the servants of the One, who are some of the most potent and insidious telepaths of any species. Each turn they may attempt to attack the minds of the crew of one ship within 12". Make an opposed Crew Quality check - for each point the Thirdspace ship wins by, targeted Ship suffers 1 Casualty Critical Roll and and may not take any actions for the remainder of turn (while the loyal crew fights to regain control).
You can always google for Thirdspace ships...they're about as good as what you find in the official rulebook.
As an aside, I still can't believe that the Shadow Vorlon factbook has no picture of a Shadow Sentient!!!!!
cadno ap annwn
Mongoose
Nice sounding rule there
I'll google the images and hopefully come up with some concept designs for miniatures. I ain't got the talent to do some of the small ships, but the large capital ships shouldn't be too hard. Lots of model putty and patience, ok a marble may end up in there somewhere
Cadno
I'll google the images and hopefully come up with some concept designs for miniatures. I ain't got the talent to do some of the small ships, but the large capital ships shouldn't be too hard. Lots of model putty and patience, ok a marble may end up in there somewhere
Cadno
cadno ap annwn
Mongoose
Well how about some of us play testing what we have here already?
I know I'd love to see how it works, easy enough to ship to ship testing, also could do a small fleet to see how fleet action works. We can all send in our comments then after playing, we're bound to be able to help Talonspiritcat tweak these rules for everyones liking
Cadno
I know I'd love to see how it works, easy enough to ship to ship testing, also could do a small fleet to see how fleet action works. We can all send in our comments then after playing, we're bound to be able to help Talonspiritcat tweak these rules for everyones liking
Cadno
talonspiritcat
Mongoose
cadno ap annwn said:Well how about some of us play testing what we have here already?
I know I'd love to see how it works, easy enough to ship to ship testing, also could do a small fleet to see how fleet action works. We can all send in our comments then after playing, we're bound to be able to help Talonspiritcat tweak these rules for everyones liking
Cadno
Oh, we'll never achieve everyones liking but maybe we can get a large majority. :lol:
cadno ap annwn
Mongoose
Good point lol, but its worth testing out the rules you've come up with and the suggestions people have put forward. They're well worth a good test in my opinion
Cadno
Cadno
[Omicron]Urobach
Mongoose
to sculpt such an ship is really an difficult project.
this "empty section with the blue energy" on the middle of the ship looks really " tricky "
this "empty section with the blue energy" on the middle of the ship looks really " tricky "
M1ndr1d3rs
Mongoose
They did the Ipsha War globe and it has a green glowing orb... IMO what would be really tricky is painting them to get the glow effect.
Sorry for the late responses.
Nope, there is another one who are quite alive by the time of the Battle of Corianna VI but they did not want to participate in it. Its in "The Rim" book which has a small entry on them. I hope if Mongoose Steele does another RPG book in the future that he does on the First Ones as a whole and talks more about these other guy as well.
Interesting, I was thinking of making perhaps Vorlon ships that were twisted by the Harbingers to suit their needs and calling them "Lilim Infiltrators" or something like that. Lilim is an attempt to go with the angelic names and the Lilim were said to be the demonic children of Lilith.
I was thinking also of perhaps suggesting making a smaller version of the Nephilim that were crewed by Harbingers and calling them "Grigori Warships" that would serve as a supporting role for the Harbinger fleet. They would have a higher initiative then the Seraphim or Cherubim which are essentially automated creations and be in more numbers then the massive Nephilim. Just a thought.
I think they were more along the lines of gigantic spikes or something like that but more or less as you said.
talonspiritcat said:
Nope, there is another one who are quite alive by the time of the Battle of Corianna VI but they did not want to participate in it. Its in "The Rim" book which has a small entry on them. I hope if Mongoose Steele does another RPG book in the future that he does on the First Ones as a whole and talks more about these other guy as well.
Interesting, I was thinking of making perhaps Vorlon ships that were twisted by the Harbingers to suit their needs and calling them "Lilim Infiltrators" or something like that. Lilim is an attempt to go with the angelic names and the Lilim were said to be the demonic children of Lilith.
I was thinking also of perhaps suggesting making a smaller version of the Nephilim that were crewed by Harbingers and calling them "Grigori Warships" that would serve as a supporting role for the Harbinger fleet. They would have a higher initiative then the Seraphim or Cherubim which are essentially automated creations and be in more numbers then the massive Nephilim. Just a thought.
Taronkov said:
I think they were more along the lines of gigantic spikes or something like that but more or less as you said.
