griping about magic

[Krushnak]

one thing im looking at changing is the the scholar class dependant stuff in spells like duration etc. Im trying to think of a way for it to run off MAB instead so multiclass scholars arent as gimped. the way i would currently do it is to count MAB as 2 effective scholar lvls.

what do you guys think about this? make the sorceror too powerful? or give him so felxibility that he needs? seeing as if he multiclasses then he'll have a lower MAB but not be so thoroughly cheated on things like spell duration/no. of zombies summoned etc.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

I'm actually already including that idea in v 1.2. It makes Dabblers easier to work with too....

Great minds and all? ;>

Raven

 

[Sutek]

I'm not entirely sure one is supposed to refer to one's self as a "great mind" Rave. (lol)

At any rate, I would disagree with the choice to make dabblers more adept with magic, or to in essence "not gimp them" compared to full blown Sorcererous Scholars. After all, the Scholar Class isn't mandated to be a spell using class, so pushing the class that direction and/or making dabblers more like lesser Sorcererous Scholars just kinda goes against the Conan idiom in my opinion. Sorcerers are intended to be really awesome with magic, but only Sorcererous Scholars are meant to be awesome in magic.

A reworking of the system may be something that places emphsis on the manner of sorcery and it's place/function in Hyborian culture, (which is essentially what Raven's already done), but bringing dabblers up to compete with full Sorcererous Scholars isn't something I'd like. Nor does it do anything by diminish the role of a non-Sorcererous Scholar in the Hyborian world.

Definitely not my taste. :?

 

[Krushnak]

my main reason for this is to create a 'samurai' style npc eastern swordsman who uses finesse fighting. to do this i wanted to give him oriental magic for calm of the adept and warrior trance but unless he's a straight scholar he cant really benefit from them all that well.

but it would also help in creating Death knight style npcs who can actually summon a decent amount of zombies if thats the only spell they know.

 

[Sutek]

Would it work if he were multi-classed as a scholar?

If not, you could introduce a new feat or something, maybe called "Learned" with "Dabbler" as a pre-req. This would then grant a character taking both further access to magic, but still not have the prowess of a full-fledged scholar.

Samurai, after all, trained in a lot philosophical skills before excelling in combat, so they'd ahve been scholars as well as soldiers.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

I'm not entirely sure one is supposed to refer to one's self as a "great mind" Rave. (lol)

Modesty is for the unimaginative. 8)

At any rate, I would disagree with the choice to make dabblers more adept with magic, or to in essence "not gimp them" compared to full blown Sorcererous Scholars. After all, the Scholar Class isn't mandated to be a spell using class, so pushing the class that direction and/or making dabblers more like lesser Sorcererous Scholars just kinda goes against the Conan idiom in my opinion. Sorcerers are intended to be really awesome with magic, but only Sorcererous Scholars are meant to be awesome in magic.

Dabblers aren't 'up to par' with Scholars- any non-Scholar class advances their MAB at one half the rate of a Scholar. I am introducing the idea od the 'effective level' of a Scholar for purposes of determining Range. Duration, etc. being equal to two times Base MAB, minimum one. This makes milticlassing easier for Scholars- all non-Scholar levels count essentially as one half a Scholar level to determine the strength of the spell. Since a Dabbler may only have access to a single school of Sorcery/Sphere of Power and is half as effective at any spell as a Scholar of equal level and receives no spells for free and must pay experience points for each spell they certainly aren't as good as a Scholar at magic. Also I removed the Dabbler's ability to just 'make up' any spell of the entire sphere if they roll a high enough Knowledge [arcana] skill check. They have to learn them just like Scholars, only withou the Scholar ability to gain spells each level after the second.

A reworking of the system may be something that places emphsis on the manner of sorcery and it's place/function in Hyborian culture, (which is essentially what Raven's already done), but bringing dabblers up to compete with full Sorcererous Scholars isn't something I'd like. Nor does it do anything by diminish the role of a non-Sorcererous Scholar in the Hyborian world.

Like I have said before I am more interested in the game mechanics being balanced and workable than a strict interpretation of Howard's work. Among the Fundementalists in the church of Howard I am the from the Reformed branch. I like to try new things.....8)

 

[Krushnak]

yeah sutek the way i see it as them being multiclassed scholars not just dabblers. but the problem with that is that some spells have 'scholar lvl' for spell durations etc which kind of defeats the purpose of the MAB in my mind.

 

[Sutek]

For v 1.2 I'm just taking it and my Final Strike special ability out. Less headache. I've created enough new ways to hurt people via magic to make up for it's loss though. ;>

Are you keeping things 1 action, or are there castings that are faster/slower? (other than group, ritual spells)

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Are you keeping things 1 action, or are there castings that are faster/slower? (other than group, ritual spells)

Most spells will be One Standard Action or a Full-Round Action but there will spells of that take smaller or larger amounts of time depending on their complexity.

 

[Sutek]

I was just wondering if you'd been aware of the new D&D rapid actions and whatnot. They have a whole slew of "half or less" actions now that I'm not sure tha I agree with. I'd always liked the "speed" of spells from old 1st and 2nd edition D&D, but that all went out the door with D20.

We used to do a 1d10+DEX mod INIT, higest roll is the fastest, but goes last. You'd subtract or add spell speed or weapon speed to that.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

I was just wondering if you'd been aware of the new D&D rapid actions and whatnot. They have a whole slew of "half or less" actions now that I'm not sure tha I agree with. I'd always liked the "speed" of spells from old 1st and 2nd edition D&D, but that all went out the door with D20.

I very specifically avoid learning anything about the 'new' D&D if at all possible. Once TSR died- it wasn't D&D anymore.

Raven, who misses the Gary Gygax days.....

 

[Sutek]

Raven, who misses the Gary Gygax days.....

No kidding.

I don't remeber arguing about the rules once back then...

lol

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Did anyone else here ever just long for the days where things weren't more complicated than "You see an orc in a 10' x 10' room guarding a chest" or when a 10' pole was your best friend? 8)

Raven, nostalgic

 

[samagee]

I think my answer on this subject is already obvious. 8) My changes to the magic system have more or less be designed to make the system easier to comprehend and utilize. Howard had no intention of making a coherent 'magic system' for his world andmade no effort to balance it in any way. Thus as Mongoose's system is devoted to replicating Howard verbatim, the base Sorcery system is unbalanced between cantrip and World Threatening Spells (tm). My efforts are more to make the roleplaying experience better, not to be slavish to Howard's script...

Speaking of which v 1.2 is coming along nicely. I posted a small preview in the "Raven's Rules for Sorcery v 1.1" topic below.... 8)

Balancing a game is for those who can not think, and want everything the same bland flavor.

 

[samagee]

one thing im looking at changing is the the scholar class dependant stuff in spells like duration etc. Im trying to think of a way for it to run off MAB instead so multiclass scholars arent as gimped. the way i would currently do it is to count MAB as 2 effective scholar lvls.

what do you guys think about this? make the sorceror too powerful? or give him so felxibility that he needs? seeing as if he multiclasses then he'll have a lower MAB but not be so thoroughly cheated on things like spell duration/no. of zombies summoned etc.

I don't think this is the way to go. If they want the scholar levels, then they should take them. I run a multiclass scholar, and it adds flavor. If they are toned down because they are a couple levels lower as a scholar, then they should have thought about that and adjusted accordingly.

 

[Sutek]

Yeah, what you might need to consider is that there are lots of prestige classes that make sorceress scholars very nasty, but it's all emphasised towards being full-on scholar class to get the most out of magic. That's jsut the way the Conan world is.

Then again, I dont' even allow dabblers in my campaign. I feel that you either are skilled at the magickal arts or you aren't, and those that are so skilled are in the sever minority...um...because they go all evil and stuff.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Balancing a game is for those who can not think, and want everything the same bland flavor.

Opinions are one thing, insults another. I see something I think is broken, I fix it. The majority of people responding to it have had favorable opinions, so I think my work fills a need. Otherwise I wouldn't bother- there is no point to writing without an audience. Besides it's not like you are throwing down your hard earned money to get it- it's free. You don't like it- there are about a billion other topics to read here and elsewhere as well.

And there is also the fact I could care less about your opinion of me or anyone else's. Truly. You say I can't think hmm? Let's see some of your work then.....

 

[mthomason]

Did anyone else here ever just long for the days where things weren't more complicated than "You see an orc in a 10' x 10' room guarding a chest" or when a 10' pole was your best friend? 8)

Raven, nostalgic

Especially in that particular situation - if you stand anywhere in the room and swing that pole, you've got a pretty good chance of connecting with the orc.

 

[Sutek]

Yeah, but you have a better chance of connecting with a wall...

LOL

 

[mthomason]

Ah.. erm.. .ah...

yeah...

*buries face in hands*