Giving Ground

[gamesmeister]

I'm wondering what Mongoose's intentions are re: Giving Ground.

For example, if I have to give ground, can I choose which direction I go. The rules say I have to retreat "directly away" from my opponent, but does it matter which way? (I take directly away to mean I can't move round things or circle around my opponent, rather in the opposite direction from the way I'm facing).

This will become important real quick. For example, if I give ground and back off into a 2nd opponent's reach, do they get a free attack on me?

The rules say if I am unable to give ground then I stop where I am. What happens if I have to give ground over a cliff edge? I'm not physically prevented from stepping backwards - has my opponent forced me over the edge?

What happens if I bump into someone else while giving ground? This is probably more of a question for a GM to call on the fly, as it could make for some fun role-playing, but I'm curious on the official rules for it.

Thanks
Gerry

 

[atgxtg]

My take on it (and I'm not the authority) is that by "directly away" they meant that the character must move in such away that each meter movement places him father away from the attacker.

I also susepct that the orginal intention was for the character to generally move backways, away from the attacker, maybe not in a perfectly straight line but near enough to it. Masybr sidestep a 1/2 meter or so to retreat out a doorway. Persoanlly I'd like a 45 degree cone of reetreat, but the rules don't seem geared that way.

The rules do say that if a character cannot give ground to his full movement he must move as far as possible and them stop.

I take this to mean that a character who gives ground doesn't go off an edge or into other characters.

Moveing through area threated by other foes does seem to be a problem, but is actually a situation where one is supposed to parry instead of dodge.

 

[Utgardloki]

I've been considering more detailed rules for giving ground.

The first thing I wrote was that it is not necessary to retreat one's full movement. Maybe 1/10th the attacker's size, min 1 meter, or your full movement, whichever is less.

I also agree with choosing a direction within 45 degrees of directly behind you. It makes sense.

I think free attacks would apply. D&D has a similar rule, where if your opponent forces you backwards through someone else's threat area, that person gets an attack of opportunity against you (or your opponent, if he goes with you).

As for going over a cliff, I think an Acrobatics/Balace roll would be appropriate to avoid being pushed over the edge. Makes things exciting. Maybe a -5% penalty for each additional meter you would normally be pushed over the edge. This would also apply to any dangerous terrain (fires, caltrops, landmines, even the threat area of a dangerous creature; any time the person didn't want to give ground, she could make an Acrobatics/Balance roll to avoid being pushed around.)

 

[atgxtg]

Oh, I have a lot of ideas for tweaks. I'm just trying to answer the question and intrpret what is in the rulebook.

One thing I was considering is that when the attacker has a better roll, HE countrols the movement. THis would be how someone could get boxed into a corner or pushed back down a fight of stais (Acrobatics or trip).

But as written, it doesn't loos like it can force someone into a bad spot. It also look, as written that in you can't give ground, you still get the dodge result. So being backed up against the wall doesn't hurt.

 

[Utgardloki]

I just saw, on Page 89 of the rulebook, the following sentence:

Failed or fumbled Athletics tests to climb or jump often result in falls and Knockback can easily knock a character off a precipice."

So I guess the rules as written say you can be knocked back over the edge of a cliff if you are not careful.

I'd still give the affected character an Athletics/Balance roll to avoid that fate, but that's a GM ruling.

 

[gamesmeister]

I just saw, on Page 89 of the rulebook, the following sentence:

Failed or fumbled Athletics tests to climb or jump often result in falls and Knockback can easily knock a character off a precipice."

So I guess the rules as written say you can be knocked back over the edge of a cliff if you are not careful.

Knockback is a very different situation to giving ground though. In the latter, you're supposed to be in control to a certain extent, after all it's all part of a successful dodge.

Knockback means you've just been smacked so hard, you've been knocked clean off your feet, with very little you can do about it. If there's a cliff behind you, you're in big trouble!

 

[MongooseMatt]

I'm wondering what Mongoose's intentions are re: Giving Ground.

For example, if I have to give ground, can I choose which direction I go. The rules say I have to retreat "directly away" from my opponent, but does it matter which way?

Umm. . .

Directly away means _directly_ away. As in opposite direction. Do not pass go.

 

[gamesmeister]

Directly away means _directly_ away. As in opposite direction. Do not pass go.

Thanks Matt...but you've only answered half the question (and the easy half at that! ). What about moving into threat zones or off a cliff?

Thanks
Gerry

 

[Arkat]

Could you get forced past other opponents? Sure, that's part of the tactics of combat.

I'd count a cliff as part of the 'move as far as you can go' then stop. Now if your right on the edge of the cliff already and have to give ground an Athletics test for balance might be an ok house rule.

Keep in mind players can always parry instead of dodging in these situations.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Thanks Matt...but you've only answered half the question (and the easy half at that! ). What about moving into threat zones or off a cliff?

Again, I have a feeling you are trying to read too much into things.

Pg 52, Free Attacks - triggered if the enemy 'moves adjacent to the character without using the Charge Combat Action.' You are not using the action in this instance so yes, a free attack is due.

Pg 51, Giving Ground - if you cannot Give Ground to your full Movement you must 'move as far as possible and then stop.' At the edge of a cliff, there simply isn't enough ground for you to give ground (if you see what I mean), so this must apply.

If you want to drive someone off a cliff, use Knockback.

Hope this helps!

 

[babayaya]

i just read all these thread and finally 2 things come along:

if you give ground, you're facing your enemy, ok?
so, unless you've eyes in the bak of your head, you don't always know what is behind (except if clearly the player/character knows that he's in the cliff border or things like that) i'd state the character to make a perception roll with some maluses (let say around 5%/meter that separate him from a direct danger), if he pass, he is allowed to modify his retreat in a reasonnable angle to avoid the best he can the problem (up to his move)... if not, it's straight on...
furthermore, he can take a reaction to make an athletic test to save himself or to complicate the enemy task when he comes to reach his threat area..
then finally, the character ginving ground have perhaps action/reaction left to try something....

 

[gamesmeister]

Pg 52, Free Attacks - triggered if the enemy 'moves adjacent to the character without using the Charge Combat Action.' You are not using the action in this instance so yes, a free attack is due.

Pg 51, Giving Ground - if you cannot Give Ground to your full Movement you must 'move as far as possible and then stop.' At the edge of a cliff, there simply isn't enough ground for you to give ground (if you see what I mean), so this must apply.

If you want to drive someone off a cliff, use Knockback.

Hope this helps!

That's great, thanks Matt. It's actually how I interpreted the rules (although I guess the free action one is pretty clear), but I wanted to make sure that was the intention.

 

[gamesmeister]

i just read all these thread and finally 2 things come along:

if you give ground, you're facing your enemy, ok?
so, unless you've eyes in the bak of your head, you don't always know what is behind (except if clearly the player/character knows that he's in the cliff border or things like that) i'd state the character to make a perception roll with some maluses (let say around 5%/meter that separate him from a direct danger), if he pass, he is allowed to modify his retreat in a reasonnable angle to avoid the best he can the problem (up to his move)... if not, it's straight on...
furthermore, he can take a reaction to make an athletic test to save himself or to complicate the enemy task when he comes to reach his threat area..
then finally, the character ginving ground have perhaps action/reaction left to try something....

Sounds....complicated! :?