Gettin' Old

[Supplement Four]

Here's a question fer ya, whipper snappers.

The d20 system rewards experience. The older a character gets, the more he experiences, the higher level he obtains.

Logic dictates that, at some point, this process has got to reverse itself.

Let's say you're designing an NPC who was once a great Barbarian warrior. Let's say he attained 10th level. But now, the NPC is 60 years old. Or, maybe he's 80's years old.

What's a good rule of thumb for reversing his level? I mean, I'm sure at 80, he's not the barbarian warrior he was at 60. And at 60, he's not the warrior he was at 40.

At what age is a good age to start lowering a warrior's level?

How would you do it? Would you use a rule of thumb?



Game Applications: Long term campaigns; magical time travel; scenes with flashbacks to a different age; taking an NPC write-up from the game for a campaign set a decade or two in the future.

 

[Jotenbjorn]

I used to have a system for losing penalties based upon lack of practice, but it never really came up so I dropped it. If you wen't a year without using a skill then you took a -1 penalty when you finally used that skill, with a maximum penalty equal to half the character's ranks. The same applies to BAB.

 

[rabindranath72]

I don't think it would work. Level is only loosely coupled with age. I.e. the more levels you have, the older you are; but the implication does not work in the reverse.
I would suggest simply applying age-based penalties to the ability scores, which in turn impact skills, BAB, saves etc.

 

[Clovenhoof]

There's an SRD rule for that.

Middle age: 35 years
Old age: 53 years
venerable: 70 years
personal maximum: +2d20 years

At middle age, –1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
At old age, –2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
At venerable age, –3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.

The effects of each aging step are cumulative. However, none of a character’s ability scores can be reduced below 1 in this way.

 

[Supplement Four]

There's an SRD rule for that.

Middle age: 35 years
Old age: 53 years
venerable: 70 years
personal maximum: +2d20 years

At middle age, –1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
At old age, –2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.
At venerable age, –3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha.

The effects of each aging step are cumulative. However, none of a character’s ability scores can be reduced below 1 in this way.

Ah...that works...sorta.

Let's say a great Barbarian Cimmerian chieftain reached 15th level in his prime. Today, though, he turns 80 years old.

The -6 to his STR, DEX and CON certainly help, but this guy, even at 80, can whip some arse with the lower levels.

As a more clear example, let's say you're running a game set when Conan is old because you want Aquilonia to be a possible kingdom for your PCs to take over (the way he did).

We'll take a look at one of Conan's enemies, to have him make a neat cameo appearance in your game. Looking at the NPCs in The Road of Kings, we decide to let the players find out that some of the Conan tales have really become myth--they didn't realy play out the way the tales are told. Olgerd Vladislav is alive! But, he's 80 years old now.

If we apply the above mods, it definitely takes a toll, but he's still got: STR 10, DEX 12, CON 11. And, he's got 60 hp, even if he never attained another level, which is a 13th level Nomad.

This is still a pretty tough hombre with a possible 3 attacks a round at age 80!

There are so many things tied to level, like your BAB and the number of attacks you get, not to mention the amount of hit points you get from having the leven (not just the CON benefit), that level and age are linked fairly strongly.

So, how do we reduce that based on age?

I mean, old Olgerd here, under the SRD rules, would have the same stats as above even if he had reached 100 years old. It's ridiculous to think he'd be any good at all hefting his sword in these twilight years.

At some point, the character's level needs to start going the other direction. And, this probably applies to only physical classes. Classes like Noble and Scholar would continue normaly.

Thoughts?

 

[rabindranath72]

We are talking (super) heroes, here! At 60yo I expect such a character would kick a$$ at an awesome level. And surely mop the floor with a measly 1st level character.
Applying real-world logic here is not going to bring you anywhere, IMO.
But if you want to follow this route...I could suggest decreasing one (cumulative) level for each age category, using the same progression as for age.

 

[rabindranath72]

There are so many things tied to level, like your BAB and the number of attacks you get, not to mention the amount of hit points you get from having the leven (not just the CON benefit), that level and age are linked fairly strongly.

The relationship between age and level is not absolutely built into the rules. Age comes out as an artifact of campaign progress. Even if you are going to use the D&D rules for training to advance levels, it's a matter of at most months. If you take the cumulative time of weeks required for training, you get something on the order of TWO YEARS. Yep, to get to 20th level, it only takes two years of training. If you don't use those rules, then the only obstacle to advancing is DM fiat; certainly not time, if not as a purely narrative device.
At the same time, if you are a stringy DM who handles XPs only once per adventure, you might see that years pass-by with characters only earning very few levels.
This has been true for every edition of D&D.

Just compare with what happens in a game where age is taken into account, for example Pendragon. These are completely different models.

 

[Vambelte]

Maybe you can add a BAB penalty, and maybe a move penalty, whit the previous presented:

At middle age, –1 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha. -1BAB

At old age, –2 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha. -2BAB, -5ft movement.

At venerable age, –3 to Str, Dex, and Con; +1 to Int, Wis, and Cha. -3BAB -10ft movement, can't run or charge.

 

[Supplement Four]

I think, since it is a heroic game, that a penalty shouldn't be added until very late. We don't want middle aged characters taking penalties.

Maybe the penalties should start at age 65. If they do, the character should decline fast.

Or, maybe we give the character a saving throw? Fort? To avoid penalty. That way not everyone is uniform.

 

[bradius]

The ancient king of Numidia, Massinissa, lived into his 90's and died leading his troops into battle. He also fathered children at that late age. He lived during the last two Punic Wars.

 

[Supplement Four]

The ancient king of Numidia, Massinissa, lived into his 90's and died leading his troops into battle. He also fathered children at that late age. He lived during the last two Punic Wars.

An exception, wouldn't you say? Notable because he was unusual?

 

[strategos14]

I dream for the day that any character I play or GM lives long enough for this to be an issue lol