Future Traveller - Testing the Waters

[Prime_Evil]

If there is a second edition version of the core rulebook, I would like to see some thought put into the layout and artwork. The fonts used throughout the current rulebook are uninspired and the layout is very plain - I realise that the intention was to emulate the clean look and feel of the original LBBs, but I'm not sure that it was pulled off properly.

The choice of artwork for the core rulebook is also of vital importance as it needs to sell the feel of the game to newcomers - it is the flagship of the product line after all. The existing core rulebook contains some decent artwork, but a lot of it doesn't really communicate the feel of the game to newcomers.

I love the idea of a digest sized rulebook similar in size to those produced for Legend - in my opinion this is a real winner.

Also, I'd love to either see the SRD updated when the new edition comes out or for Mongoose to have a declaration of the OGC in the rulebook similar to the one in the Legend rulebooks (presumably reserving the OTU as product identity owned by FFE).

 

[MongooseMatt]

So my hunch is that book sales are in the region of 5 000 - 8 000 books.

!!!

If _only_. Ten years ago, you would have been right on the money. These days, if an RPG book sells a _tenth_ of the figures you quote (and I am not just talking about Mongoose here, this goes for most of the 'big' names in the market), then it is considered a good seller. Not poor, not even average, but _good_.

That might put the discussion on Deneb, Solomani Rim and other titles into perspective...

 

[Jame Rowe]

If you do include a minis line do a bunch of different unarmed civilians.

If you do revise any books please revise the Merchant Marine career from Book 7.

How about some 54mm add ons for 2300 AD? To big for wargames but useable for roleplaying and futuristic base figures are cheap [Just take 1/35 scale modern soldiers] What is lacking are guns and some gear, maybe heads/helmets

Oh and LuKi VIII and IX in 1:35 scale with propery Y-Numbers and tacsigns please

No thank you. You would've had me if you'd said 25MM, though, as I want something I *could* wargame with.

 

[Prime_Evil]

So my hunch is that book sales are in the region of 5 000 - 8 000 books.

!!!

If _only_. Ten years ago, you would have been right on the money. These days, if an RPG book sells a _tenth_ of the figures you quote (and I am not just talking about Mongoose here, this goes for most of the 'big' names in the market), then it is considered a good seller. Not poor, not even average, but _good_.

That might put the discussion on Deneb, Solomani Rim and other titles into perspective...

My impression is that the RPG hobby has been in a slow decline ever since the d20 wave crested and that the premature announcement of D&D 4e was the final nail in the coffin, with many people choosing to leave the hobby entirely rather than upgrade to a new version of the flagship fantasy RPG. The only bright spot on the horizon is that the emergence of PDF publishing and POD has made it economically viable to publish products with very small print runs, enabling the industry to weather the storm. Of course, the whole publishing industry is in a state of upheaval at the moment and who knows how things will pan out in the long term.

 

[Greg Smith]

My impression is that the RPG hobby has been in a slow decline ever since the d20 wave crested and that the premature announcement of D&D 4e was the final nail in the coffin, .

That's about right.

4e split the D&D part of the hobby, killed the third party market but did wonders for Paizo.

 

[Prime_Evil]

4e split the D&D part of the hobby, killed the third party market but did wonders for Paizo.

Yes...but it's a bigger slice of a smaller pie.

And this creates issues for Traveller because SF roleplaying has never been as popular as fantasy. Without a strong fantasy market, there are fewer gamers around willing to try an SF game.

 

[Prime_Evil]

Here's an interesting question - if Mongoose produces a second edition of the Traveller core rulebook should it place a greater emphasis on the OTU setting in the core rules or should it strive to be more of a generic SF ruleset?

 

[MongooseMatt]

In total [PDF / Kindle / Paper] or just the printed version?

And how much does Frank Freeloader affect PDF sales these days / what can be done against those who steal PDFs instead of buying them?

Total number of PDF copies sold rarely makes a big dent within any reaasonable time - their benefit is that they can carry on selling years after release.

As for Frank, the answer to your first question will be 'unknown' and the second would be 'probably nothing.'

 

[nDervish]

Here's an interesting question - if Mongoose produces a second edition of the Traveller core rulebook should it place a greater emphasis on the OTU setting in the core rules or should it strive to be more of a generic SF ruleset?

My vote is very strongly for "generic". When I first encountered Traveller back in the 80s, what I loved most was the amount of setting- and campaign-generation baked into the rules. Ever since then, I've always used Traveller as a toolbox for building settings, regardless of whether it was for an actual Traveller game or not. Most of the tables and meta-game systems can be applied directly to any sci-fi game and they're not that difficult to adapt for fantasy or other genres.

Meanwhile, when I have played games using the full Traveller rules, the OTU setting has never interested me in the least. I'd much rather roll up a subsector (or sector) of my own and go from there without having to worry about what might be happening in the canon OTU timeline. (Not to mention that rolling my own also lets me get rid of the overarching Imperium, lower the average TL/population figures, etc. if I so choose.)

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

As a Traveller since the days of the original Box with the first three Little Black Books, I STRONGLY recommend that it stay as neutral as possible. Sandbox is how Traveller started. Also, since Mongoose has now published quite a few non-OTU setting books, if they make the OTU more integrated into the rules, they will have a much harder time supporting their other lines. 2300AD seems to be off to a good start and Judge Dredd is EVERYWHERE right now.

Black books should stay as generic as possible. Setting books are where you apply the rules with a slight twist.

 

[Mithras]

Generic, generic, generic. I have built so many different settings using Traveller over the decades, Alpha Persei, Ursa Majoris, the Capella Authority, Roman sailing in the Mediterranean (!). The Traveller tool-kit made all this easy...

 

[2330ADUSA1]

You know I have played for 36+ yrs and have always had my Traveller campaign set in the Verge sector when my players play in a standard game based campaign. I have also had or used other campaigns were I have had one set in a BSG setting, andother in a Space1999 setting, and still another based in a 2300 style setting. That being said I look at any book as a pure resource book to be used as a reference only anyway, I always rewrite my own stuff anyway.

So for me I just want more stuff written is all and I will just utilize it as best I can, if I so feel it is of value or not.

 

[Dave Chase]

Generic Core rules, with maybe a small chapter on how a setting can be made/established, using the 3I as an example.

Then produce Setting books for those who want more detail.

Dave Chase

 

[Prime_Evil]

Ok...a couple of related questions....

Should a new edition of the core rulebook spend expand upon the current exploration of alternative technological paths such as warp drives and stargates / artificial wormholes? Or should it stick as close as possible to technological paradigm of the OTU?

What about settings where portable energy weapons are more common than they are in the OTU (blasters, disruptors, etc)? Should Traveller offer stats for these weapons in settings where they are available?

And how should Traveller tackle potentially game-changing technologies such as cybernetics, artificial intelligence, genetic engineering, and nanotechnology? In a technologically conservative setting of the OTU these technologies either don't exist or are heavily regulated by the Imperium, but they are of great importance in other SF settings.

Even if we stick close to the OTU, there are areas where a subtle update of the technological assumptions may be worthwhile - for example, Mongoose has already updated the look and feel of battledress to have more of an anime influence. Are there other areas where long-standing technological assumptions could be revised? For example, the Advanced Combat Rifle looked awesome back in 1977, but doesn't look quite so impressive in 2012.

 

[andreav]

I'd be happy to have a minor species that happens to be a proud ballet dancer race, myself. The leader is La Prima Donna di Primedonne.

Are the Luriani close enough

 

[TrippyHippy]

Here's an interesting question - if Mongoose produces a second edition of the Traveller core rulebook should it place a greater emphasis on the OTU setting in the core rules or should it strive to be more of a generic SF ruleset?

Keep it generic. I'd actually want to make it more generic if anything (remove OTU alien details, etc), and expand it out to be as inclusive of any sci-fi settings as possible.

However, a release of a HB Core OTU book would be a very good idea to follow.

 

[delrom5]

So my hunch is that book sales are in the region of 5 000 - 8 000 books.

!!!

If _only_. Ten years ago, you would have been right on the money. These days, if an RPG book sells a _tenth_ of the figures you quote (and I am not just talking about Mongoose here, this goes for most of the 'big' names in the market), then it is considered a good seller. Not poor, not even average, but _good_.

That might put the discussion on Deneb, Solomani Rim and other titles into perspective...

This is part of the big white elephant that we're all dancing around. The persepective that most of us have is looking into the (games) shop through the window. We're have no role in the games business other than as consumers, so we don't have access to information such as this. Although Dragonmeet seminars (being the next game con planned) often touch on the state of gaming, perhaps Matt along with Cubicle 7 and Pelgrane Press staffers should get together and do a state of the RolePlay industry seminar.

 

[delrom5]

My impression is that the RPG hobby has been in a slow decline ever since the d20 wave crested and that the premature announcement of D&D 4e was the final nail in the coffin, .

That's about right.

4e split the D&D part of the hobby, killed the third party market but did wonders for Paizo.

Yet Traveller faces a similar split between T5 and MgT...

 

[GypsyComet]

My impression is that the RPG hobby has been in a slow decline ever since the d20 wave crested and that the premature announcement of D&D 4e was the final nail in the coffin, .

That's about right.

4e split the D&D part of the hobby, killed the third party market but did wonders for Paizo.

Yet Traveller faces a similar split between T5 and MgT...

Not even close. Traveller is already fragmented along multiple edition lines and has been for 20 years. The subset who will buy into T5 are already defined, and most of them have never been Mongoose customers past the CRB (if that). T5 is also not envisioned as an extensive product line, as far as I can tell. That role remains with Mongoose.

 

[dragoner]

Plenty of us have bought both T5 and mong, so what? Business follows specific rules, such as it is not enough to satisfy a customer, but they want to be delighted; such is the jargon, it's really impossible to distill tens of thousands of dollars of a degree into a simple sentence. But really, make good stuff, follow your four p's or whatever (product, price, place, promotion), get it out here.