Further defining Starports

[Anstett]

A system in the 3rd Imperium has only 1 starport and possibly 1 associated Highport by imperial law. All interstellar traffic is supposed to dock at this port first.

Where is this from? I cannot find it in any MTG2 book.

Spaceport and or stations are strictly limited to in system traffic. This does not mean a Star ship cannot land at one it simply means that they have to land at the Starport/Highport first.

WBH-193
On a high technology, high population world, there could be many places where a starship can land, be repaired or even built. By convention in Charted Space, only one facility on the mainworld’s surface and one facility (if any) in orbit is considered the starport of the system.

So Yes there can only be one Starport designated but there can be many places that can act as a Starport, they are call Spaceports with some having everything a Starport has except that particular designation. A type F Spaceport can effectively give a system multiple type A ports. I see no reason why traffic control at the Starport would require docking at one place just to go to another place in system that has the same facilities.

 

[Nelphine]

Ah right, docking space as a seperate number.
It does point out that we lose a lot of granularity - using docking space as an example, a class A starport would have minimum 100k docking space, so in a profile, would have 5. And 6 would be reasonable, and some might hit 7. Not sure we need a profile for a range of 3 numbers. Would be nicer if we could use the full range of 0-A, to give granularity within that spectrum. (0 being 100k, A being 10m) but that would lose the familiarity (and therefore intuitiveness, and therefore usability) of the profile values. Ah well.

 

[Condottiere]

You could look at it like the Trillion Credit Squadron - somebody had to pay for it, and that limits the size.

Also, facilities reflect local and Imperium mandates, and at the time of construction, current and future economic outlook.

 

[Anstett]

You could look at it like the Trillion Credit Squadron - somebody had to pay for it, and that limits the size.

Also, facilities reflect local and Imperium mandates, and at the time of construction, current and future economic outlook.

WBH-199
The construction of some ships, especially larger ships, may tie down yard capacity for years or possibly decades, so a shipyard’s annual output is normally some fraction of its total capacity. For shipyards specialising in smaller starships or small craft, annual output may actually exceed the shipyard’s capacity but for most yards annual output as a percentage of yard capacity will actually decrease as yard size increases. This depends to a large extent on the importance of a world, since more important worlds require larger ships. To determine annual output:


Lots of text describing how to arrive at these figures.

 

[CordwainerFish]

Where is this from? I cannot find it in any MTG2 book.

As far back as 1989, Terra has three down ports, one of which mostly handles military traffic but mostly dead is partly alive...

WBH-193
On a high technology, high population world, there could be many places where a starship can land, be repaired or even built. By convention in Charted Space, only one facility on the mainworld’s surface and one facility (if any) in orbit is considered the starport of the system

...and so like any good convention, this one is not universally applied.

I see no reason why traffic control at the Starport would require docking at one place just to go to another place in system that has the same facilities.

I can imagine some systems' local laws requiring you to have your ship inspected at their customs office before landing at non-Imperial ports (or your contact's lower forty).

 

[Condottiere]

Ye of short memory.

I would say quarantine and invasive species would be the primary reason to confine starships orbitally.

 

[Vormaerin]

Obviously, no one is bound by this, but the default situation created by the Traveller rules is NOT to have a highport. The starport chart on pg 257 indicates that highports are not guaranteed, even in class A starports.

Class A is 6+ (72%)
Class B is 8+ (41%)
Class C is 10+ (17%)
Class D is 12+ (3%)

 

[Geir]

Obviously, no one is bound by this, but the default situation created by the Traveller rules is NOT to have a highport. The starport chart on pg 257 indicates that highports are not guaranteed, even in class A starports.

Class A is 6+ (72%)
Class B is 8+ (41%)
Class C is 10+ (17%)
Class D is 12+ (3%)

Note also on page 258, where:
Use the following modifiers when determining whether a highport is present:

DM+1 if TL9–11,​

DM+2 if TL 12+,​

DM+1 if Population 9+,​

DM–1 if Population 6–​

(I've expanded and indented that list for clarity.) So, on a High Tech, High Population world, only on a roll of 2 would a Highport not be present.
This is a little more random than T5, where rigidly A, B, and C ports have a Highport if the population is 7+, 8+, or 9+, respectively. And not at all for Class D. But that rigidity doesn't appear to correspond to a lot of published MgT2 material.

 

[Sigtrygg]

If you go back a page I took a photo of the T5 book picture of Regina highport - I really think you need to rethink the size of highports.

 

[Vormaerin]

Note also on page 258, where:
Use the following modifiers when determining whether a highport is present:

DM+1 if TL9–11,​

DM+2 if TL 12+,​

DM+1 if Population 9+,​

DM–1 if Population 6–​

(I've expanded and indented that list for clarity.) So, on a High Tech, High Population world, only on a roll of 2 would a Highport not be present.
This is a little more random than T5, where rigidly A, B, and C ports have a Highport if the population is 7+, 8+, or 9+, respectively. And not at all for Class D. But that rigidity doesn't appear to correspond to a lot of published MgT2 material.

Yeah, there are modifiers, but in MgT2e, it is never guaranteed even with a TL12+, Pop 9+ world with a class A starport. Personally, I'm fond of a lot of space infrastructure in my games, so I just put it in there.

Just saying that if you are designing a system to expand on the rules, it's useful to acknowledge that the rules are designed around the downport as the primary component and the highport as the optional component.

As an aside, it's kind of amusing to me how the modifiers are sort of circular. Class A starports boost the TL of the world and the TL of the world then boosts the features of the class A port...

 

[Micky]

really nice thread!! Three months now into my Traveller journey and I have found the subject of Starports to be one of the most interesting subjects. Though it took several months to catch up and buy all the Mongoose 2nd edition books I've also been getting any books, Gurps and 1st Ed MgT mostly, that deal with them or with the business of Starports like the bitchin Gurps Far Trader book.

That Freelance Traveller series of articles on them also was also really good and informative on using them as one might the local village in traditional fantasy RPG as a place to meet NPC's, rest, play, equip, and as place where adventure seeds/patrons are found.

 

[tytalan]

Where is this from? I cannot find it in any MTG2 book.

It’s been implied since the beginning and the fact that the Starport is considered extraterrestrial WBH pg 193
“
Within the Third Imperium, a designated starport facility
is considered extraterritorial and under the jurisdiction
of the Imperial Starport Authority (SPA), originally part of the IISS, but since 422 a part of the Imperial Ministry of Commerce. “

 

[tytalan]

So Yes there can only be one Starport designated but there can be many places that can act as a Starport, they are call Spaceports with some having everything a Starport has except that particular designation. A type F Spaceport can effectively give a system multiple type A ports. I see no reason why traffic control at the Starport would require docking at one place just to go to another place in system that has the same facilities.

Only in the 3rd imperium because of imperial law. Remember the imperium started as a trade protection agency and originally got most of its income from docking fees. The WBH supports this with this
“
Within the Third Imperium, a designated starport facility
is considered extraterritorial and under the jurisdiction
of the Imperial Starport Authority (SPA), originally part of the IISS, but since 422 a part of the Imperial Ministry of Commerce. “

The imperium controls Star Traveler not worlds which is why it monitors interstellar travel. This is why each world is so different in government and laws. There are some cargos that are banned in the 3rd imperium.

 

[Sigtrygg]

It’s been implied since the beginning and the fact that the Starport is considered extraterrestrial WBH pg 193
“
Within the Third Imperium, a designated starport facility
is considered extraterritorial and under the jurisdiction
of the Imperial Starport Authority (SPA), originally part of the IISS, but since 422 a part of the Imperial Ministry of Commerce. “

True, but there are canonical examples of more than one starport facility on the ground and in space.

 

[Anstett]

It’s been implied since the beginning and the fact that the Starport is considered extraterrestrial WBH pg 193
“
Within the Third Imperium, a designated starport facility
is considered extraterritorial and under the jurisdiction
of the Imperial Starport Authority (SPA), originally part of the IISS, but since 422 a part of the Imperial Ministry of Commerce. “

Agreed on the extraterritorial part.

I cannot find any reference to it being required you dock at a Starport when entering the system.

Logically it makes sense to have radio communication with the Starport; but enter the system, visit a Spaceport to get refueled and leave the system seem to be a regular thing for ships that have nothing else to do in the system.

 

[Anstett]

If you go back a page I took a photo of the T% book picture of Regina highport - I really think you need to rethink the size of highports.

I have not yet dipped into the HG building for these. That is a key step though because I am trying to work backwards on cost to build, return on investment by trade and services.

First trying to figure out all the pieces that belong based on types. Ideally to give every Starport/Spaceport a 'score' for a TAS detailed rating type of profile.

 

[MasterGwydion]

View attachment 1933

From WBH-195
Shipyard tonnage refers to the total size of downport and highport (if any) shipyards.
Actual build capacity is at best half of this level, as some of the shipyard bays are often repurposed for repair and overhaul duties. As a rule of thumb, the largest vessel a starport shipyard can construct is 10% of its listed shipyard tonnage.

Geir? Is this your fault? Why would the shipyard tonnage refer to the total size of the Starport? That is like saying the the storage volume of My car is the size of the car, not the size of the actual storage area, which makes the information absolutely useless.

Just give Me the actual damn capacity! If it is repurposed for some other thing, then it is no longer a shipyard and should not count as a shipyard.

As for maximum ship size and construction tonnage. It is simple. Use one number for both as shipbuilding is both a function of construction capacity and size of the yard itself. Then the writers have a little bit of wiggle room to say that yes, this shipyard can build 100 million CR worth of ships per month, but they only can build ships up to say 100Dtons... This will allow a writer or a Referee to tailor it to their TU without changing the underlying mechanic, and without making everything cookiecutter the same.

 

[ottarrus]

I'm gonna ask the dumb question here.
Why are we worried about statting out a starport?
A starport's facilities, personnel, and capabilities are what the planet's UPP and the needs of the campaign say they are.
A Class B port on a world with 1 population is probably gonna be highly automated. A port on a trade route [which the referee decides based on the needs of the campaign anyway] will have more commercial facilities, etc.
I'm kinda seeing all this as another rendition of "Traveller Gearhead Stats Up Unnecessary Stuff, Part 12"

 

[MasterGwydion]

Where is this from? I cannot find it in any MTG2 book.


WBH-193
On a high technology, high population world, there could be many places where a starship can land, be repaired or even built. By convention in Charted Space, only one facility on the mainworld’s surface and one facility (if any) in orbit is considered the starport of the system.

So Yes there can only be one Starport designated but there can be many places that can act as a Starport, they are call Spaceports with some having everything a Starport has except that particular designation. A type F Spaceport can effectively give a system multiple type A ports. I see no reason why traffic control at the Starport would require docking at one place just to go to another place in system that has the same facilities.

They do not require it as far as I know, but you are under control of the Starport no matter which "subport" you go to. There is still only one official boss of the SPA in each system.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I'm gonna ask the dumb question here.
Why are we worried about statting out a starport?
A starport's facilities, personnel, and capabilities are what the planet's UPP and the needs of the campaign say they are.
A Class B port on a world with 1 population is probably gonna be highly automated. A port on a trade route [which the referee decides based on the needs of the campaign anyway] will have more commercial facilities, etc.
I'm kinda seeing all this as another rendition of "Traveller Gearhead Stats Up Unnecessary Stuff, Part 12"

Then why write Charted Space at all if you want nothing defined? Go homebrew something.