FTL Communications?

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

Sorry, Lt. Uhura. No answers on hailing frequencies.
The whole point of there being no FLT commo in Traveller is to give the players agency. They have to make decisions and take action without having a superior or advisor to blame when it all goes hairball. Change that and you might as well play Star Trek.
[Which is no hack against Star Trek... I've had good Trek games, though I don't like the current 2d20 rules much]

I feel like you didn’t read the full post if you think this is the case.

 

[swordtart]

Jump space theory is like theories on how to argue successfully against a woman.

There are many and they are all wrong.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Yup, there is no definitive canon answer to the nature of jump space. And I like it that way.
No jump masking, no jump shadows, a 10D risk of misjump that decreases with distance, jump rutters kept by navigators...

and all bar the rutters used to be actual canon

 

[WHULorigan]

Yup, there is no definitive canon answer to the nature of jump space. And I like it that way.
No jump masking, no jump shadows, a 10D risk of misjump that decreases with distance, jump rutters kept by navigators...

and all bar the rutters used to be actual canon

Well, despite the added complication, I do rather fancy masking and potentially shadows . . .

The 10D exclusion zone that damps out toward 100D is largely forgotten (but much more flavorful), and your Jump Rutter idea is a great one, especially when combined with the Jump Cassettes vs. Navigator/Generate-Program idea of CT.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

It wasn't even true 50 yeras ago.

MK V Diving Rig - U. S. Naval Undersea Museum

The Mark V diving rig was used by the U.S. Navy for deep sea and salvage diving from 1916 through the early 1980s. Designed for intensive diving operations and to provide maximum physical protection, the Mark V allowed divers to work at much deeper depths than had previously been possible. With...

navalunderseamuseum.org

Also, even before electronic communications, you were not "effectively cut off". The guy in the boat could signal the guy underwater by banging on the boat or on a night dive by flashing a light into the water. I live in the Caribbean and moved down here to open a dive resort. (resort is still a work in progress, but we still have a dive boat. ) So, your analogy doesn't really work. You can't "bang on a boat" and have it be detected in jumpspace.

As far as "effectively" goes, it means "the same result as" being cut off. So, any result that connects from jumpspace to normalspace, means that you are no longer "effectively cut off" as you have a point of contact and a method of doing so.

If communication can pass through jumpspace, even if it is only to another ship in jumpspace, it proves that jumpspace can be used as a transition medium for "stuff", information, or whatever. It stands to reason, that if we can send "signals" through jumpspace, then what else does that open the door to?

Or maybe jumpspace doesn't exist within Canon and all of the rules in the rulebooks are lies since Canon is just a collection of historical texts and therefore can be wrong or fabricated. A laser can't do 2d6 damage if lasers don't exist and we can only take the word of Canon that it does exist.

You are

Well, despite the added complication, I do rather fancy masking and potentially shadows . . .

The 10D exclusion zone that damps out toward 100D is largely forgotten (but much more flavorful), and your Jump Rutter idea is a great one, especially when combined with the Jump Cassettes vs. Navigator/Generate-Program idea of CT.

I use Jump Rutters extensively in the Weird Uncharted Space milieu

 

[MasterGwydion]

I use Jump Rutters extensively in the Weird Uncharted Space milieu

What is a jump rutter? Same as on the old sailing ships, but for jump astrogation? That is interesting. How does that work IYTU?

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

It wasn't even true 50 yeras ago.

MK V Diving Rig - U. S. Naval Undersea Museum

The Mark V diving rig was used by the U.S. Navy for deep sea and salvage diving from 1916 through the early 1980s. Designed for intensive diving operations and to provide maximum physical protection, the Mark V allowed divers to work at much deeper depths than had previously been possible. With...

navalunderseamuseum.org

Also, even before electronic communications, you were not "effectively cut off". The guy in the boat could signal the guy underwater by banging on the boat or on a night dive by flashing a light into the water. I live in the Caribbean and moved down here to open a dive resort. (resort is still a work in progress, but we still have a dive boat. ) So, your analogy doesn't really work. You can't "bang on a boat" and have it be detected in jumpspace.

As far as "effectively" goes, it means "the same result as" being cut off. So, any result that connects from jumpspace to normalspace, means that you are no longer "effectively cut off" as you have a point of contact and a method of doing so.

If communication can pass through jumpspace, even if it is only to another ship in jumpspace, it proves that jumpspace can be used as a transition medium for "stuff", information, or whatever. It stands to reason, that if we can send "signals" through jumpspace, then what else does that open the door to?

Or maybe jumpspace doesn't exist within Canon and all of the rules in the rulebooks are lies since Canon is just a collection of historical texts and therefore can be wrong or fabricated. A laser can't do 2d6 damage if lasers don't exist and we can only take the word of Canon that it does exist.

You are speaking my language.
Banging on the boat is the equivalent of normal communication in the jump bubble. The dive suit had a tether, which is equivalent to a jump umbilical (within the jump bubble).

This doesn’t change the jumpspace as a medium, any more than using gravity pulses as sonar. The restrictions by jump level are significantly limiting.

Remember Gateway? That created a hyper-tunnel.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

What is a jump rutter? Same as on the old sailing ships, but for jump astrogation? That is interesting. How does that work IYTU?

A Jump Rutter is a secure navigational device used by astrogators, combining traditional star charts with psionically captured data to enhance jump
precision. It stores navigational information, while the Thought Lattice captures sensory and spatial instincts, helping astrogators predict subtle jumpspace anomalies. Protected by biometric, psionic, and cryptographic defenses, advanced models include a semi-conscious system that
bonds with the astrogator to prevent unauthorized access.
Jump Rutters offer superior control in hazardous or uncharted space, providing quicker and more accurate jump calculations, making them invaluable for military and exploratory ships. Rare and expensive, they grant significant tactical advantages in long-distance travel.
The Astrogator and/or Pilot must interface with the jump rutter to gain any advantage or benefit.

 

[MasterGwydion]

A Jump Rutter is a secure navigational device used
by astrogators, combining traditional star charts with psionically captured data to enhance jump
precision. It stores navigational information, while
the Thought Lattice captures sensory and spatial
instincts, helping astrogators predict subtle
jumpspace anomalies. Protected by biometric,
psionic, and cryptographic defenses, advanced
models include a semi-conscious system that
bonds with the astrogator to prevent unauthorized
access.
Jump Rutters offer superior control in hazardous or
uncharted space, providing quicker and more
accurate jump calculations, making them
invaluable for military and exploratory ships. Rare
and expensive, they grant significant tactical
advantages in long-distance travel.
The Astrogator and/or Pilot must interface with the
jump rutter to gain any advantage or benefit.

View attachment 5285

Damn! That is cool!

 

[Sigtrygg]

Jump rutters
Before the advent of the jumpspace generate program in the 34th century, navigation from system to system relied on the accumulated knowledge of navigators. Plotting an interstellar course required knowing the relative velocity and distance between point A and point B, and a host of other factors.
Knowledge of the relative motion of each system with respect to each other and to the galactic core, the gravitational interactions of other bodies within the relative systems, etc. were acquired by navigators during their long experience in space.

Jump-rutters often contain a wealth of information beyond jump navigation. For instance, they frequently have detailed physical descriptions of systems, starports, asteroids, gas giants, notes about gravitational interactions, and difficult entries, instructions on how to use navigational instruments to determine position and plot routes, calendars, astronomical tables, mathematical tables and calculation rules, lists of customs regulations at different ports, etc.

As a result, the jump cassette and generate program never fully replaced the navigator's jump-rutter but remained supplementary to it.

Game rule - the rutter contains the jump routes plotted by the navigator throughout their career and may be used in lieu of a jump cassette or generate program, the downside is it is slower (1d+Jn hours) although navigation skill can reduce the time required.

 

[Condottiere]

You know, you could combine this with astrogation/specialization, for a specific route or region.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Jump rutters
Before the advent of the jumpspace generate program in the 34th century, navigation from system to system relied on the accumulated knowledge of navigators. Plotting an interstellar course required knowing the relative velocity and distance between point A and point B, and a host of other factors.
Knowledge of the relative motion of each system with respect to each other and to the galactic core, the gravitational interactions of other bodies within the relative systems, etc. were acquired by navigators during their long experience in space.

Jump-rutters often contain a wealth of information beyond jump navigation. For instance, they frequently have detailed physical descriptions of systems, starports, asteroids, gas giants, notes about gravitational interactions, and difficult entries, instructions on how to use navigational instruments to determine position and plot routes, calendars, astronomical tables, mathematical tables and calculation rules, lists of customs regulations at different ports, etc.

As a result, the jump cassette and generate program never fully replaced the navigator's jump-rutter but remained supplementary to it.

Game rule - the rutter contains the jump routes plotted by the navigator throughout their career and may be used in lieu of a jump cassette or generate program, the downside is it is slower (1d+Jn hours) although navigation skill can reduce the time required.

So how does that work? Rutters only worked in the age of sail because nothing ever changed. The geography always stayed the same. This is not the case with space. Nothing is ever in the same place or even going the same velocity that it was only 2 weeks before. How is a person supposed to keep the gravitational interactions of a whole star system in his head or in his Rutter? Everything is always in motion. I love this idea of a space rutter, but the more I try and figure out what kind of stuff would be in a rutter, the less it makes sense in space. Cool in concept, but not sure it works in practice.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The rutter stores the data and the computer simulation of the universe as the navigator knows it. The movement of every system they have visited relative to every other system and the galactic centre.

As they plot jumps to new systems , or plot jumps within systems, the data base and the simulation is updated.

 

[MasterGwydion]

The rutter stores the data and the computer simulation of the universe as the navigator knows it. The movement of every system they have visited relative to every other system and the galactic centre.

As they plot jumps to new systems , or plot jumps within systems, the data base and the simulation is updated.

So, we have how many types of proprietary simulation software? Does this mean that if you steal someone's Rutter, that you cannot transfer the information to your Rutter?

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

So, we have how many types of proprietary simulation software? Does this mean that if you steal someone's Rutter, that you cannot transfer the information to your Rutter?

Mine was based on the Nautical Almanac, with a healthy dose of Eldridge Tide and Pilot Book and Frommer's Guide tossed in. I actually got the idea from Clavell's Shogun.

IMTU, stealing rutters for the data is a serious offense between astrogators and shipping companies. But, it can be done.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

So how does that work? Rutters only worked in the age of sail because nothing ever changed. The geography always stayed the same. This is not the case with space. Nothing is ever in the same place or even going the same velocity that it was only 2 weeks before. How is a person supposed to keep the gravitational interactions of a whole star system in his head or in his Rutter? Everything is always in motion. I love this idea of a space rutter, but the more I try and figure out what kind of stuff would be in a rutter, the less it makes sense in space. Cool in concept, but not sure it works in practice.

IMTU (The Weird Uncharted Space), jumps carry a little bit more difficulty. Jump Rutters add bonuses for surveys and the Astrogation checks.

 

[Sigtrygg]

So, we have how many types of proprietary simulation software? Does this mean that if you steal someone's Rutter, that you cannot transfer the information to your Rutter?

Stealing someone's rutter without its encryption is unlikely to do you much good, unless you have access to higher TL computers. You can always torture the navigator...
Finding a rutter in a two thousand year old wreck it may just be worth trying to crack into it...
or the navigator may even have written down how to access it.

 

[MasterGwydion]

IMTU (The Weird Uncharted Space), jumps carry a little bit more difficulty. Jump Rutters add bonuses for surveys and the Astrogation checks.
View attachment 5289

This is awesome and amazing!

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

This is awesome and amazing!

Thanks- I thought so.
I should also mention that Jumpspace Weather is a thing, and the Almanacs track jump currents the way a maritime rutter tracked currents and tides.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Thanks- I thought so.
I should also mention that Jumpspace Weather is a thing, and the Almanacs track jump currents the way a maritime rutter tracked currents and tides.
View attachment 5294View attachment 5295View attachment 5296

I love this! This should be a thing in all of Charted Space. It would be amazing!