Fleet Update 1 - missing Escort SHips
- Thread starter jedilard
- Start date
ADB asked us to remove them. I am afraid we have no idea as to when they will return.
Zarathustra Suicune
Mongoose
Will they still be legal for people who have the rules to use at mongoose events?
Captain Jonah
Mongoose
msprange said:
Erm what exactly is going on. I understand they were for playtest but it's polite to tell your customers when things change. A simple explanation would do.
Captain Jonah said:
It is a very, very long story. And one I should probably not get into.
We have a form of words as to what needs doing before these rules can come back, but it is going to take a bit of work.
I was asking on the BBS if this had an effect on the escort ships published in Captain's Log #46 (which should be the same ships as the ones in Mongoose's own file), and SVC answered with the following:
The historical fleet deployment thing sounds like a good compromise may be in the works; which would allow groups of players to decide whether to leave things more open, or to use a template that helps give a fairer sense of what would be deployed in-universe.
The historical fleet deployment thing sounds like a good compromise may be in the works; which would allow groups of players to decide whether to leave things more open, or to use a template that helps give a fairer sense of what would be deployed in-universe.
riftsinger
Mongoose
sounds like a good rule maybe it shound be used for the scouts as well as i dont think there wound be large numbers of them in a fleet .
katadder said:
Thats easy - whatever the tournament decides is being used.
A fleet construction system for ACTA is really something I think should be generated for the game - it only needs to be very basic (a la Uncharted Seas or actually probably even less than that) to fit the SFU and it solves a lot of problems in terms of rare ships for those with an SFU-history interest and all you do is make it optional and anyone who wants to play free buy (most notably for campaign games where the metric is completely different) can go ahead and do so.
Actually to be honest make it a standard rule and its trivial for those who don't want to use it to just ignore it. Its not like army lists/force lists/fleet lists for construction are uncommon in wargaming - equally some people will want just slap down their models and play and others will construct specific scenarios where again a standard fleet construction system becomes irrelevant and safely ignored, but its a handy tool to have around with the nature of the SFU.
This is Super annoying why can't you guys figure it out your communication sucks.
With the lame launch of this game and how long it took to get things going as far as minis go now you are pulling down parts of the update we have been waiting for over a year I think. We still have no cards or the rule book PDF.
You have all time in the world to start another kick starter. Please take care of the games you have now.
With the lame launch of this game and how long it took to get things going as far as minis go now you are pulling down parts of the update we have been waiting for over a year I think. We still have no cards or the rule book PDF.
You have all time in the world to start another kick starter. Please take care of the games you have now.
We would love to, Mark, believe me, but we have constraints on this game that are just not present on others. However, the last of the squadron sets are being manufactured now, and new ships are starting to roll out, along with (free!) rules updates to use both them and the older ships in new ways.
We are getting there.
We are getting there.
TheBeerPope
Mongoose
I see the escorts have been added back to update 1, but i see no changes to it. I thought there was going to be an addition on play styles (historical vs none) am i missing something?
Nope. The "Historical" Fleet Limits is being compiled by SVC but, no release has been given. So we will see it when its finish. Who knows maybe in Update #2. For now we can keep playtesting the Scouts and Escorts.
SVC did mention he is thinking the Escort Limit might be 1 for every 6 units in the fleet. So if you had 11 ships in your fleet you could have 1Escort. For 12 ships you would be allowed to take a second Escort. Now that is not set in stone but it is the way he is thinking of working it.
SVC did mention he is thinking the Escort Limit might be 1 for every 6 units in the fleet. So if you had 11 ships in your fleet you could have 1Escort. For 12 ships you would be allowed to take a second Escort. Now that is not set in stone but it is the way he is thinking of working it.
TheBeerPope
Mongoose
I could care one way or another if they implement the historical, i don't feel that escorts break the game, but that's me. I was more curious because it seemed like it was some big issue or something and suddenly its back like nothing happened.
Oh well, i guess not a big deal either way, i was just making sure i wasn't missing something when i skimmed it.
Oh well, i guess not a big deal either way, i was just making sure i wasn't missing something when i skimmed it.
Captain Jonah
Mongoose
Yet again a limit based on a totally different rules set. :roll:
Sorry to sound like a broken record but one per 6 ships if it is taken as one per full 6 six ships yet again leaves the plasma races (and oddly a few of the others) stuck. It takes a huge game or loads of very cheap ships to field a fleet of 12 ships just to get two escorts. If this were one per 6 or part then a 7 ship fleet could have two which is liveable since it would be be a couple of Cls or BDDs with the D refit rather than a huge change in fleet character but again it comes down to limiting a players choice to use HIS ships in HIS games with the tactics of HIS choice.
Unique ships one per fleet I can understand, its basically a character figure with different stats but for the rest can we not work to balance them and leave the choice of ships to the players. Yes there will be cheese fleets but being overly focused on one thing makes them vulnerable to other tactics and things should balance out or be tweaked as time reveals minor problems.
Putting in a limit based on SFB or FC makes no sense, yes I know that the “Official” fleet lists and limits from the Star Fleet verse say that the fleets super glued escorts to carriers but this is not SFB/FC where every ship on the board can fire at Drones and Plasmas.
In SFB/FC a ship can repair its shields, charge an overload and fire at passing Drones while moving slowly. In ACTA-SF those are all special actions so only one can be done.
The game I played last weekend had the Romulans launch a 38 dice plasma storm in total at my Kirov, I had deliberately moved the Kirov into the target zone to draw fire and try to kill the Novahawk before it got to orbit. With the DWE centre lined on the Kirov at 2” and the CLE the same at 3” plus support from one of the DWs that made its IDF roll I stopped 26 dice. With boost shields the Kirov wasn’t even crippled.
In return the Sparrowhawk escort just managed to protect the Novahawk from my drone fire by using its Plasma-Ds and the next turn I got two drones through while he reloaded them. That was the Novahawk AND the escort trying to stop a 12 Drone attack.
While fleets may, at the strategic level, aim to have a balanced mix of ships in reality when battles happen it is with the ships to hand. Set piece fleet attacks may allow the attacker to pick the fleet he wants but for the defender its a case of what is available. The same applies for fast raids, attacks of opportunity, attacking that convoy your spy just told you about etc.
You can just see the task force commander getting the message that an enemy force has been scrambled to hit a vital supply convoy.
“Comms I want a list of every available ship in the sector and alert the ships at this Starbase to be ready to be underway immediately”
“Aye Captain, the medium cruiser and both battle destroyers are ready but the captain of the CLE wants to know do you want him or the BDE in your force as fleet regulations prohibit a task group this small from having two escorts”
“Beep, beep, BEEEEEEEP beep” (translated from Gorn and censored) :lol:
Sorry to sound like a broken record but one per 6 ships if it is taken as one per full 6 six ships yet again leaves the plasma races (and oddly a few of the others) stuck. It takes a huge game or loads of very cheap ships to field a fleet of 12 ships just to get two escorts. If this were one per 6 or part then a 7 ship fleet could have two which is liveable since it would be be a couple of Cls or BDDs with the D refit rather than a huge change in fleet character but again it comes down to limiting a players choice to use HIS ships in HIS games with the tactics of HIS choice.
Unique ships one per fleet I can understand, its basically a character figure with different stats but for the rest can we not work to balance them and leave the choice of ships to the players. Yes there will be cheese fleets but being overly focused on one thing makes them vulnerable to other tactics and things should balance out or be tweaked as time reveals minor problems.
Putting in a limit based on SFB or FC makes no sense, yes I know that the “Official” fleet lists and limits from the Star Fleet verse say that the fleets super glued escorts to carriers but this is not SFB/FC where every ship on the board can fire at Drones and Plasmas.
In SFB/FC a ship can repair its shields, charge an overload and fire at passing Drones while moving slowly. In ACTA-SF those are all special actions so only one can be done.
The game I played last weekend had the Romulans launch a 38 dice plasma storm in total at my Kirov, I had deliberately moved the Kirov into the target zone to draw fire and try to kill the Novahawk before it got to orbit. With the DWE centre lined on the Kirov at 2” and the CLE the same at 3” plus support from one of the DWs that made its IDF roll I stopped 26 dice. With boost shields the Kirov wasn’t even crippled.
In return the Sparrowhawk escort just managed to protect the Novahawk from my drone fire by using its Plasma-Ds and the next turn I got two drones through while he reloaded them. That was the Novahawk AND the escort trying to stop a 12 Drone attack.
While fleets may, at the strategic level, aim to have a balanced mix of ships in reality when battles happen it is with the ships to hand. Set piece fleet attacks may allow the attacker to pick the fleet he wants but for the defender its a case of what is available. The same applies for fast raids, attacks of opportunity, attacking that convoy your spy just told you about etc.
You can just see the task force commander getting the message that an enemy force has been scrambled to hit a vital supply convoy.
“Comms I want a list of every available ship in the sector and alert the ships at this Starbase to be ready to be underway immediately”
“Aye Captain, the medium cruiser and both battle destroyers are ready but the captain of the CLE wants to know do you want him or the BDE in your force as fleet regulations prohibit a task group this small from having two escorts”
“Beep, beep, BEEEEEEEP beep” (translated from Gorn and censored) :lol:
Captain Jonah,
The limits on escorts are apparently going to be OPTIONAL rules, so if you or the tournament organizer don't want to use them they don't have to.
Being as I won't be running/playing in any tournaments in the foreseeable future, it's a non-issue to me. But at my private gaming table, I may use those optional rules to keep down the tendency for cheese fleets to surface.
Believe me, as a player of F&E, I know how it is, not having much choice as to what ships may be available to fend off an enemy attack. I've seen some strange battlelines at times, using whatever is at hand.
The limits on escorts are apparently going to be OPTIONAL rules, so if you or the tournament organizer don't want to use them they don't have to.
Being as I won't be running/playing in any tournaments in the foreseeable future, it's a non-issue to me. But at my private gaming table, I may use those optional rules to keep down the tendency for cheese fleets to surface.
Believe me, as a player of F&E, I know how it is, not having much choice as to what ships may be available to fend off an enemy attack. I've seen some strange battlelines at times, using whatever is at hand.
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