Fleet Carrier in campaigns

[Ike]

except for a vowel and a consonant, rules and common sense have nothing to do with each other

 

[stepan.razin]

In a Campaign Gaim get ALL their craft back

Any ship with the Carrier trait gets 2 flights of fightrs back

Ships with Self repair get all damage back and repair all criticals

Are you sure about crits? I think the rules say that crits are not repaired.

 

[Da Boss]

Sorry yes quite right - I was thinking of Vorlons / Shadows -

Although reading it again RAW seem to imply that should a Shadow or Vorlon finish a game with a Critical it can't repair it...............

not that I would play that................

 

[Grunvald]

Although reading it again RAW seem to imply that should a Shadow or Vorlon finish a game with a Critical it can't repair it...............

not that I would play that................

A Crit on a shadow or Vorlon isnt repaired, but what the point any way just wait untill the end of the 1st turn in your next game!

Fully repaired

 

[Pawnographer]

An earlier post (as well as the rules) mentioned that in a campaign, a fleet carrier replenishes 2 fighters per turn. If I took a Centauri Carrier with its fighters upgraded to Rutarian Fighters and I lose 6 ina Battle against the Minbari (like what happened today), does the carrier replace the upgraded fighters or do I have to choose between the regular Razik/Sentri fighters. I originally thought it would be what I originally purchased (the Rutarians) but Razin thinks it is the normal compliment of fighters. The rules are unclear (to me) and either interpretation seems plausible to me.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Although reading it again RAW seem to imply that should a Shadow or Vorlon finish a game with a Critical it can't repair it...............

not that I would play that................

A Crit on a shadow or Vorlon isnt repaired, but what the point any way just wait untill the end of the 1st turn in your next game!

Fully repaired

If the critical in question takes out your Self Repair, you technically wouldn't even repair any damage until the next battle either :twisted:

 

[Grunvald]

Although reading it again RAW seem to imply that should a Shadow or Vorlon finish a game with a Critical it can't repair it...............

not that I would play that................

A Crit on a shadow or Vorlon isnt repaired, but what the point any way just wait untill the end of the 1st turn in your next game!

Fully repaired

If the critical in question takes out your Self Repair, you technically wouldn't even repair any damage until the next battle either :twisted:

Now THAT is a good point, if you've lost the Self-Repair trait would you repair between campaign turns?

I'm guessing no, but if you repair the trait then everything would be restored!

 

[Silvereye]

An earlier post (as well as the rules) mentioned that in a campaign, a fleet carrier replenishes 2 fighters per turn. If I took a Centauri Carrier with its fighters upgraded to Rutarian Fighters and I lose 6 ina Battle against the Minbari (like what happened today), does the carrier replace the upgraded fighters or do I have to choose between the regular Razik/Sentri fighters. I originally thought it would be what I originally purchased (the Rutarians) but Razin thinks it is the normal compliment of fighters. The rules are unclear (to me) and either interpretation seems plausible to me.

Thanks for your feedback.

The earlier poster was wrong, Fleet Carrier DOES NOT replenish 2 fighters per turn. The rules work as follows:

Fleet Carrier (Rule book, page 17), buffs your fighters dogfight, allows more fighters to start the engagement deployed and gives fighters a chance to 'save' flights (that it can normally carry) which have been destroyed during the engagement. It has no benefit during the Repairs and Reinforcements phase of a campaign turn.

Carrier (Rule book, page 16), tells you how many fighters a ship can launch/recover each turn, as well as allowing you to put two flights back together during the Repairs and Reinforcements phase of a campaign turn.

Ships with the Carrier trait may automatically replenish up to two lost flights of Fighters....

The rules are unclear about replenishing 'upgraded' fighters. My take on it, is the Carrier doing the repairing, so you could repair the normal fighters the ship can carry. In your example, I'd allow you to replenish Razik/Sentri's for free, but ask that you pay 1-2 RR for the Rutarian upgrade (those spare parts are a lot harder to get hold of). Another option might be to just half the number of upgraded fighters you can replenish.

 

[Greg Smith]

An earlier post (as well as the rules) mentioned that in a campaign, a fleet carrier replenishes 2 fighters per turn. If I took a Centauri Carrier with its fighters upgraded to Rutarian Fighters

The rules are unclear (to me) and either interpretation seems plausible to me.

The rules do not specify. Personally I would think you would recover two Rutarians for free. Mainly because you have paid the cost to upgrade already.

 

[Pawnographer]

Hi Andy (Silvereye). Thanks for trying to answer my question but you missed the question entirely and your answer was incorrect. The question regarded the CAMPAIGN rules for fleet carriers (which what this thread is about). The campaign rules start on p. 78+. You were quoting rules from p. 16.

On page 86, the campaign rules state: "Ships with the Carrier trait may replenish up to two lost flights of fighters per turn." To me, the reference is to fighters "lost." An earlier posted used the term "ordinary compliment" which is not stated in page 86 and does not state any authority for the term (however, he was not addresisng my question). Razin also argued that my lost upgraded Rutarian fighters would be replenished only with teh carriers usual sentri/razik fighters. But when I read the rules it said "lost" fighters. In a battle with the Minbari, I lost Rutarian fighters (I paid for the upgrade costs in the FAP). So between campaign turns, does my Centauri Balvarian carrier replenish lost Rutarian fighters with new Rutarian fighters or Sentri/Razik fighters??

Anyone with CAMPAIGN experience/knowledge know?

Thanks,

Pawnographer (Robert): Drakh, Centauri, Brakiri, League

 

[Silvereye]

I think you misunderstood my answer, or you are confusing the terms Carrier and Fleet Carrier. The Fleet Carrier trait does nothing in the the CAMPAIGN rules. It is the Carrier trait is what allows you to repair and Replenish the two flights of fighters in the CAMPAIGN rules.

It helps that currently all ships with the Fleet Carrier trait also have the Carrier trait. But not all Carriers have the Fleet Carrier trait.

The Brakiri Fleet for example contains the Brikorta Light Carrier (Carrier 2) and Cidikar Heavy Carrier (Carrier 4, Fleet Carrier). Both vessels can use the Repair and Replenish CAMPAIGN rules.

As Greg says, the printed rules are unclear. You've upgraded the Balvarins hangers with your original Fleet Roster purchase, however the Rutarians are a paid for upgrade over Sentri/Raziks (you swap out four Sentri/Raziks to Rutarians for a Patrol point), hence my suggestion of a token RR payment. The best option to repair/replenish Rutarians is to have an Adira in your fleet.

'Lost' is an ambiguous term. You may have transferred fighters from your Balvarin to another ship (Dargan, Adira, Octurion, Primus, etc.) in a previous Campaign turn and they would still be 'lost' from the Balvarin's fighter complement. As opposed to being shot down by the enemy.

 

[Greg Smith]

It is a question of how you consider a Balvarin with Rutarian replacements in a campaign battle. Do you consider it a raid plus 2 patrol FAPs? Does it give up appropriate VPs when destroyed?
In which case, I would say you replace the fighters for free.

If you take it in a campaign battle and just call it a raid choice, then you should pay extra to replenish Rutarians.

If you lose fighters, then are forced to replenish Sentris/Raziks, then it certainly ceases to cost more.

 

[Silvereye]

Good answer there Greg.

 

[Pawnographer]

It is a question of how you consider a Balvarin with Rutarian replacements in a campaign battle. Do you consider it a raid plus 2 patrol FAPs? Does it give up appropriate VPs when destroyed?
In which case, I would say you replace the fighters for free.

If you take it in a campaign battle and just call it a raid choice, then you should pay extra to replenish Rutarians.

If you lose fighters, then are forced to replenish Sentris/Raziks, then it certainly ceases to cost more.

Well, at least this addresses my question but it seems Greg that you are not certain. I believe the campaign rules (or at least the way the group I am is doing it), I had to pay for the upgrade costs initially. Then by your thinking, I should pay extra if I want the replacements to be upgraded again. It is a reasonable position and conclusion. I am hoping that some platester or group had already wrestled with this issue and have a definitive answer. If not, then I will be inclined to follow Greg's thinking as reasonable and the more conservative approach. It is just that when I and another playtester originally read the rule on page 86, the language seemed to lead to the other result: the lost fighter (whatever it was) is replenished a sthe original language references the "lost fighter."

Any other person/group deal with this issue and reached a conclusion?

Thanks.

 

[Ripple]

I would follow Greg's suggestion. Our group ended up abandoning the campaign rule, as we found it unbalanced.

I do find his question on how you consider the upgraded carrier interesting. What rule allows you to consider it a raid plus two patrol?

We went to each race getting a patrol point of fighters for free each turn. We considered changing this to allow a skirmish point, to allow for better fighters, bet decided against allowing for a point per carrier type stuff.

Ripple

 

[Greg Smith]

I do find his question on how you consider the upgraded carrier interesting. What rule allows you to consider it a raid plus two patrol?

It costs a raid point for a Balvarin. A patrol point swaps out 4 Sentris for Rutarians, so 2 patrol points for the whole complement of fighters of the ship.

So if you roll a 5 point raid level scenario and decide to bring that Balvarin, it must surely cost R+2P.

 

[Methos5000]

I do find his question on how you consider the upgraded carrier interesting. What rule allows you to consider it a raid plus two patrol?

It costs a raid point for a Balvarin. A patrol point swaps out 4 Sentris for Rutarians, so 2 patrol points for the whole complement of fighters of the ship.

So if you roll a 5 point raid level scenario and decide to bring that Balvarin, it must surely cost R+2P.

That makes sense, but does the ship count as a R+2P if its destroyed in battle for VP purposes since that is what you paid for the ship? It is similar to Admirals in my opinion as it is increasing the value of the ship. It probably should but I wonder if many count it that way during VP counting as it is easier to miss.

 

[Greg Smith]

It is easy to miss. That is kind of why I posed the question in relation to replacements - if the cost is factored in to bring the ship to a battle and VPs, then replace Rutarians for free. If you haven't, pay for the Rutarians.

 

[Pawnographer]

I do find his question on how you consider the upgraded carrier interesting. What rule allows you to consider it a raid plus two patrol?

It costs a raid point for a Balvarin. A patrol point swaps out 4 Sentris for Rutarians, so 2 patrol points for the whole complement of fighters of the ship.

So if you roll a 5 point raid level scenario and decide to bring that Balvarin, it must surely cost R+2P.

This is the rule for upgrade costs that I (the gtoup I am in) has followed. I think I found it in the fleet lists book for Centauri. The consensus on this Board seems to be that only the normal compliment of fighters (for the Centauri Balvarian - that would be Sentry/Razik) would get replenished as Ripple's group found the other interpretation (if it was an upgraded fighter that was lost, the upgraded fighter gets replenished)broken.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[David Anla Shok']

ISA by far whitestar fighter -> nasty

Yes. It is good to be good. 0;>