First Blush

[Travellingdave]

I just downloaded the Beta and am reviewing. Very pretty although the wide number of fonts used is sometimes a bit distracting.

Am a bit concerned over the material that was removed, particularly ship design. I assume it will all be covered in High Guard, but that makes this Core Book considerably less universal than previous editions and makes High Guard a Must Buy.

Still, I will try to review what is here objectively.

 

[AndrewW]

Am a bit concerned over the material that was removed, particularly ship design. I assume it will all be covered in High Guard, but that makes this Core Book considerably less universal than previous editions and makes High Guard a Must Buy.

Yes ship design will be covered in High Guard, which will be part of the playtest. There was some debate about removing this component from the core rulebook. But in the end this keeps all the rules for ship building together, before even the main parts of the rules where split between the core rulebook and High Guard. You don't get vehicle construction in the core rulebook either, but that has never been an issue as far as I know. It was desirable to have more room in the core rulebook for other stuff.

 

[alex_greene]

Agreed. High Guard is now your one stop shop for shipbuilding, just as the Vehicle Handbook to come will be your one stop shop for vehicle design.

Wait till you see what's in HG.

 

[Travellingdave]

Yes ship design will be covered in High Guard, which will be part of the playtest. There was some debate about removing this component from the core rulebook. But in the end this keeps all the rules for ship building together, before even the main parts of the rules where split between the core rulebook and High Guard. You don't get vehicle construction in the core rulebook either, but that has never been an issue as far as I know. It was desirable to have more room in the core rulebook for other stuff.

I completely understand the logic but it is a considerable break with previous Traveller editions. Starship design has always been a core mini-game even if it's just up to 2000 dtons (which many considered a feature). I know I will miss those rules. Also, removing them limits play to the ships provided until you buy HG, and there is not even a corsair (or other threat vessel) in the core book any more.

Vehicles have never been as central to Traveller play as starships, which effectively become the PCs' homes during most campaigns, so their more cursory treatment was never as problematic (IMHO).

 

[AndrewW]

Also, removing them limits play to the ships provided until you buy HG, and there is not even a corsair (or other threat vessel) in the core book any more.

Doesn't limit it without High Guard. Can still use whatever existing ships with the new rules. Just limits creating your own ships without High Guard or making use of the SRD.

 

[Travellingdave]

Well, it sounds like the decision is made. My regret is that the Core Book will no longer be the tool kit is once was, with basic versions of all the key build systems included, making it all you needed to build your own campaign or even galaxy. In my own experience, that was one of the most attractive features of the current edition. YMMV.

So, on to the rest of the book.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Vehicles have never been as central to Traveller play as starships, which effectively become the PCs' homes during most campaigns, so their more cursory treatment was never as problematic (IMHO).

Players will build whatever they have rules for building. There's enough in the core book to make up stuff of your own.

 

[Travellingdave]

Players will build whatever they have rules for building. There's enough in the core book to make up stuff of your own.

In terms of vehicles, I completely agree with you. I never had trouble creating cars or grav vehicles as needed. Starships, on the other hand, greatly benefit from having access to the build system IMHO.

 

[Jeff Hopper]

I guess I will post this here as well.

I understand that spacecraft design has been changed and will be fully detailed in High Guard, but the lack of even a rudimentary ship design sequence in the new Core Rules is a big negative for me. It distances the new rules from its Classic Traveller roots, which was one of the main selling points of the game. One of the greatest appeals of Traveller is the fact that it is a toolkit allowing people to create much of their own material - the exclusion of one of the most used toolkits by enthusiasts from the Core Rules is a detriment to the book's commercial viability.

 

[Jeff Hopper]

Players will build whatever they have rules for building.

No rules for building spacecraft.

There's enough in the core book to make up stuff of your own.

So, if there are no spacecraft construction rules in the Core Book and customers can make up stuff on their own, then why bother with buying the Core Book?

 

[Ifandbut]

Yes ship design will be covered in High Guard, which will be part of the playtest. There was some debate about removing this component from the core rulebook. But in the end this keeps all the rules for ship building together,

That is fine in principle but from my understanding the core rulebook will be released first and then High Guard will not be released until a few months later. Ships are such a core part of Traveller that not having the rules for building them right off the bat seems like I would be getting half a product.

I'm having flashbacks to waiting months for the DMG for D&D 5e to be released.

 

[-Daniel-]

I have to say from my point of view, as long as sample ships are included, I see no negative for moving ship design rules to the High Guard book other than it requires me to buy a book that in the past was optional.

But in my experience those who want to build ships end up buying High Guard any way and those who don't want to build ships will be ok with the samples given.

 

[Anonymous]

Obviously the Mongoose Design Team agrees with you, but I still feel something fundamental is lost when the Traveller Core Book stops being the tool kit it was first conceived to be. It's one of the brilliant patterns that the First Edition set. I will miss it. JMHO

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Obviously the Mongoose Design Team agrees with you, but I still feel something fundamental is lost when the Traveller Core Book stops being the tool kit it was first conceived to be. It's one of the brilliant patterns that the First Edition set. I will miss it. JMHO

I'm still waiting to see all these brilliant ships made by players during the last 38+ years. All I see are the same old Scout and Far Trader ships being used by players.

 

[-Daniel-]

Obviously the Mongoose Design Team agrees with you, but I still feel something fundamental is lost when the Traveller Core Book stops being the tool kit it was first conceived to be. It's one of the brilliant patterns that the First Edition set. I will miss it. JMHO

I'm still waiting to see all these brilliant ships made by players during the last 38+ years. All I see are the same old Scout and Far Trader ships being used by players.

I don't know Shawn, I kind of liked the Serpent Class Scout Ship from the Paranoia Press Scouts book. :wink:

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Obviously the Mongoose Design Team agrees with you, but I still feel something fundamental is lost when the Traveller Core Book stops being the tool kit it was first conceived to be. It's one of the brilliant patterns that the First Edition set. I will miss it. JMHO

I'm still waiting to see all these brilliant ships made by players during the last 38+ years. All I see are the same old Scout and Far Trader ships being used by players.

I don't know Shawn, I kind of liked the Serpent Class Scout Ship from the Paranoia Press Scouts book. :wink:

I always thought the bridge was weird on it. I think because of canon, players want the same ship each time. In Star Wars, everyone wants the Millennium Falcon. Like it's the only ship design for that galaxy, or something. I should tell players that those PP books are on drive thru.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm still waiting to see all these brilliant ships made by players during the last 38+ years. All I see are the same old Scout and Far Trader ships being used by players.

My play group for Classic Traveller designed a whole LOT of ships for themselves, from custom shuttles to 2000 dton private cruisers. When I got my first LBBs, I worked on creating the Black Sabbath: a 400 dton raider that I tinkered on for weeks. Just because we didn't publish them (this was before the Internet made that so very easy), doesn't mean we weren't building them. I have pages of hand drawn stats and deck plans, and I doubt I am the only one. Again, everyone's experience is different.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm still waiting to see all these brilliant ships made by players during the last 38+ years. All I see are the same old Scout and Far Trader ships being used by players.

My play group for Classic Traveller designed a whole LOT of ships for themselves, from custom shuttles to 2000 dton private cruisers. When I got my first LBBs, I worked on creating the Black Sabbath: a 400 dton raider that I tinkered on for weeks. Just because we didn't publish them (this was before the Internet made that so very easy), doesn't mean we weren't building them. I have pages of hand drawn stats and deck plans, and I doubt I am the only one. Again, everyone's experience is different.

 

[-Daniel-]

I'm still waiting to see all these brilliant ships made by players during the last 38+ years. All I see are the same old Scout and Far Trader ships being used by players.

My play group for Classic Traveller designed a whole LOT of ships for themselves, from custom shuttles to 2000 dton private cruisers. When I got my first LBBs, I worked on creating the Black Sabbath: a 400 dton raider that I tinkered on for weeks. Just because we didn't publish them (this was before the Internet made that so very easy), doesn't mean we weren't building them. I have pages of hand drawn stats and deck plans, and I doubt I am the only one. Again, everyone's experience is different.

You should publish them now that you do have the internet. :wink:

 

[Infojunky]

A set of conversion guidelines for various technical bits in the meantime would be nice.

But to be honest, not so much has changed that I cant keep using my hodgepodge of MgT and CT for the time being. (I am not convinced I like the new ship damage rules enough to change away from my hybrid anyhows....)