Favored terrain + 5

[Sourcerer]

Actually D20 is exactly that: one special rule for every situation, every ability, feat and so on

The advantage is the modularity.
Only if you have any given ability or feat, you must pay attention to the rules expansion thereof.
This makes a very comfortable learning curve.

While for some special cases the rules really are "clunky", in 99% of all cases it's all smooth.

Too many rules lead to absurd situations and this very thread is quite a good example about it.

In very specialised cases it can be interesting to reach a consensus about how the rules are to be interpreted.
But usually this only deepens the understanding of the rules.

Personally I consider D20 to be an elegant system.

There are many systems that allow to handle such various situations with far less maths and using a common method for task resolution.

D20 is not my ideal of a RPG system.
There are a lot of things I don't like about it, but it can be fun to play.

I don't want to start a religious war, but which systems do you mean?
The systems that get mentioned here from time to time don't seem fitting.

 

[kintire]

Maybe that might be the case, but the rules are there to cover all possible scenarios.

Except that they're not. D20 does not concern itself at all with where a blow lands: the assumption that its aimed at the center was yours, and while reasonable enough it isn't mandated. You just have to interpret the results. In this case, if you don't get spotted it must have been a limb, if you do, clearly you had to move too much!

You are kidding, right?

You can see, hear and feel the difference.

Really? Through a layer of sand? Through thick undergrowth, when your weapon is hitting half a dozen real branches as well? If it comes to that, you might just be parrying with a branch!

There is no right or wrong, there is only like or don't like.
Every system has merits and flaws, but you can play with every single one and it might even be fun.

True here.

You BS sir. You say this whenever you want to look reasonable, but scratch the service and the truth comes out!

Such as:

I won't stop ranting on D20

Notice again I'm criticizing the system, you're criticizing the person, as usual.

Oh were you? Criticizing? What point were you making? Any specific objection? no.

Once again we see that it is utterly impossible to have any debate about any part of the D20 rules without you dropping to say "Its all because d20 sux!". you had nothing to say about the actual discussion going on at all.

 

[zozotroll]

Easy. Attacker rams his sword into an area you vanished. It bounces off something hard. How is he supposed to know whether it was a rock, treebranch, or shield?

What, the terrain becomes invisible to? Or perhaps the sword swinger is closing his eues?

 

[treeplanter]

For my part I think all the discussion solved my problem. I'll still use my logic. I won't start calculating the amplitude of movement needed to dodge or parry

 

[kintire]

What, the terrain becomes invisible to? Or perhaps the sword swinger is closing his eues?

The terrain is extremely visible: that's the whole point. If your blow bounces off a wooden thing, and all you can see are treebranches, you are likely to assume it bounced off a treebranch.

 

[Hervé]

Personally I consider D20 to be an elegant system.

When stripped down to its basics, I agree that D20 is indeed a rather elegant system.

We had some runs lately on a Road Warrior style game using a very basic version of D20 and it worked rather well. The system is classless and more skill based than standard D20, without BABs, special abilities and other maths stuff (attacks being handled as skills), Feats are cut down to the minimum. I liked the system that way, without having to ponder about stacking bonuses and combos of feats and other silliness.

The less rules you get, the less rule problems you encounter. The tactical number crunching approach is definitively not for me and I really think an Howardian setting would benefit a faster and simpler engine, reflecting more the mood of REH stories. I said it already and I'll tell it again: as it is today, it's Conan's world that had to bend under the rules, when the logic would have been to design rules reflecting Conan's world. As it is now, we only have a Conan flavoured D&D...

I don't want to start a religious war, but which systems do you mean?

Most systems available on the market today use a unique system for task resolution be it combat, climbing or socializing. The other engines used by Mongoose, MRQ and Traveller, are examples of these, but you can find many others. Actually, as I said, Only OD&D and some others old school RPGs use different systems for resolving different actions.

 

[Vambelte]

About the vanishing thing. I believe that all depends on the GM aproach of the game. If the GM is running game more tied to the natural, less fantastical I would say, maybe vanishing in place whitout cover is a bit too much. But if you have more sobrenatural elements going on in the game, that's not a big deal...

All up to the GM and the players...

 

[kintire]

About the vanishing thing. I believe that all depends on the GM aproach of the game. If the GM is running game more tied to the natural, less fantastical I would say, maybe vanishing in place whitout cover is a bit too much. But if you have more sobrenatural elements going on in the game, that's not a big deal...

All up to the GM and the players...

Very true, although I think it is possible to overthink these things. D20 isn't as precisely simulationist as some. Also, you have to think these decisions through. In thiss case, if you are going to decide that a Borderer can't hide in plain sight in a desert, for example, what are you going to say he can do instead? I've seen a few characters nerfed because of rulings like this, and heaven knows the borderer isn't exactly overpowered to start with.

 

[Vambelte]

Yeah, I also think borderer is very far from overpower. In fact borderer is a class I love, but I had to create some feats to make borderers more in line whit the other classes.

In the sand desert, where you have no concealment, I guess the borderer can say he kicks some sand in the air, then he runs to hide behind a dune or something like that. When his enemy come looking for him he will be on their back, ready to make a blow.

 

[treeplanter]

Then in that case, we can say the terrain actually DOES provide concealment

You see, that is the point. For me, the power read that you're in a flat room with no shadow, and you can still hide. So either you become invisible or you have some cameleon power. Either way, it is surnatural.

True Borderer are far from overpowered, but they are far from underpowered too. They are just fine IMHO.

 

[DooMJake]

I always thought it was that the character with this ability had made camoflage (clothing) which your character then uses. like a ghuillie suit. That can work even for desert environment like a sand-colored cloak or something