Extended Tests

[languagegeek]

I'm looking at the extended test rules: A&E for craft (pg 27 for RQII) and AoT for social interaction (pg 34). The victorious condition of an extended test is reaching 100% after 4 rolls, where a success earns 25% and a critical earns 50%.

I've been experimenting with such tests before incorporating them into a game, and have found them to be near impossible to succeed at. Either the character has to win all 4 tests in a row or roll at least one critical. If we imagine a character with a quite decent Influence of (after modifiers) 75%, the chance of rolling once over 75% is likely. A village smith with Craft (ironwork) of 75% is rarely if ever going to be able to make anything worthwhile.

Now I understand that, according to the craft rules, the smith can take more time to improve the situation, which makes sense and takes care of things. But the persuasion section of AoT has a limit of 4 rolls (which makes sense; eventually the object of persuasion will run out of patience). The unlikelihood of AoT persuasion increases as the object of said persuasion gets an opposed Persistence roll. So a character with an Influence of 75% up against someone with Persistence of 50% has little hope. Interestingly, in the example at the bottom of Aot 34, Farsha Kitarang needs two criticals to persuade Tarasin.

So I'm thinking that I might modify this:
* Maybe a target of 75% instead of 100%
* Maybe a new success ranking: Where both parties succeed, the higher roll gets 25%. One-degree of victory (success vs fail) gets 50%, and 2 degrees of victory gets 100%.

Any thoughts? Is your experience with extended tasks different from mine?

 

[Dan True]

But the persuasion section of AoT has a limit of 4 rolls (which makes sense; eventually the object of persuasion will run out of patience). The unlikelihood of AoT persuasion increases as the object of said persuasion gets an opposed Persistence roll. So a character with an Influence of 75% up against someone with Persistence of 50% has little hope. Interestingly, in the example at the bottom of Aot 34, Farsha Kitarang needs two criticals to persuade Tarasin.

Which is why you wear a lot of bling (+10%), have a fancy title (+10%), go hunting with the king (+15%) before you can persuade anyone of anything worthwhile.

But yes, I understand you frustration. But aren't you forgetting the difficulties of crafting / persuasion ? It's been a while since I read them, so I'm not sure.

- Dan

 

[Simulacrum]

I hear you...

There are a few things you can work with here:

1) Only use extended task persuasion with opposed roles when you are trying to make a significant change to the target's position/opinion/emotions etc. It shouldn't be that hard if the target 'wants' to be persuaded.
2) This is hard core social combat, don't use it on mooks.
3) Play it out with some RP that seeks out modifiers (either to depress Resistance or enhance the Seduction/Influence etc). You do need to pile these up unless a 'master' of persuasion.
4) Allow partials, think about what they mean* - just for once you have outcomes to a non-combat task with a lot of finesse of degrees of success.
5) Note AoT Bribery Rules...

* just finished the Companion (it's finally print ready) in which I also included Extended Tasks for running a farm or business - the variable result indicates how much profit or loss you make.

 

[Prime_Evil]

Extended tests are very sensitive to conditional modifiers - a good set of tools that provide a +20% to an extended crafting test may mean the difference between success and failure for an ordinary craftsman. Because situational modifiers alter the chance of passing each of the individual skill tests in the sequence, you can use them indirectly to make the extended test easier or harder as you see fit.

Also, remember that you can apply the Difficulty and Haste Modifiers from the core rulebook to extended skill tests. Thus, a blacksmith isn't going to fail every time he tries to make a horseshoe because that's a routine task for him. But if he tries to forge something complex, he might find that it stretches his ability .

The Haste modifiers can be very important for social interaction - a treasonous noble who spends months talking the king around to his own point of view is going to have more chance of winning an extended Influence test than somebody who barges into the throne room and starts babbling about an insidious plot against the realm. In the first case, the noble has taken five or even ten times the normal period to lay the groundwork for his influence, while in the latter case the intruders are trying to convince the king almost instantly and will be lucky if the royal guards let them escape with their heads!

And don't forget the rules for Augmenting Skills with Other Skills (p.42 of the rulebook) - for example, a courtesan with a Seduction skill of 80% should receive a +8% bonus when trying to use her Influence skill against one of the impressionable young men at court...

 

[languagegeek]

I mentioned that it makes sense with craft that one can take a longer time. So that a someone forging a sword under stress is likely to come up with an inferior product. That's all good.

With social tests, a character with 60% influence (not that bad a score), looks to improve their situation, and gets 15% in modifiers. They still have to succeed at 4 rolls in a row at 75% opposed by another's Persistence. In my tests, that just wasn't happening without a critical (assuming the opponent rolls no critical).

I've been leaning towards a gradient scale of extended results. So let's say two characters approach the duke to convince him to either fund a mission or not. Our hero is trying to get the money, the opponent wants the funding to go elsewhere.

*Accumulated 0-25%, the duke denies permission for the mission.
*Accumulated 50% means the duke won't fund it but let's the mission go ahead
*Accumulated 75% means the duke will partially fund the mission
*Accumulated 100% full funding
*Accumulated 125% full funding + stretch goals

The attitude of the duke doesn't give a skill bonus, but bumps the result level by one or two levels depending. This improves things significantly, or makes them worse. So trying out some Seduction or Bribery in the weeks leading up to the request can be significant.

 

[Prime_Evil]

I'm wondering if it would be possible to extend the Reputation system from Pirates of Legend to other genres, allowing characters with a high social status and / or fame to gain a bonus to social rolls in certain circumstances?

I'm also wondering whether the "Clothes Maketh The Man" rule from p.34 of Pirates of Legend might be useful in other time periods?