Excel Ship Designer v2025.06.13
- Thread starter Arkathan
- Start date
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Right, but Adjustable Hull makes "all weapons" pop-ups, which seems to normally be impossible.
"All weapons, not just turrets, on such a ship have pop-up mountings at no additional cost."
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I agree. I was saying that without an adjustable hull, it isn’t possible. There is no normal way to get something bigger than a turret in a pop-up.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I house-ruled this to be possible a while ago. Not spinals, but barbettes and bays that can pop-up. A turret is 1 ton. Making it pop-up adds another ton. So, for Barbettes which are 5 tons, I made the pop-up cost 5 tons as well. Same for the Bays, I just double their size to account for the extra space needed within the hull.
I was just kind of hoping that this would give Us a in the rules example to bring in actual pop-up Barbettes and Bays. Kind of like the whole PODS thing.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Personally, I can’t wait for a megafreighter to pop out its hidden meson spinal mount on someone.I house-ruled this to be possible a while ago. Not spinals, but barbettes and bays that can pop-up. A turret is 1 ton. Making it pop-up adds another ton. So, for Barbettes which are 5 tons, I made the pop-up cost 5 tons as well. Same for the Bays, I just double their size to account for the extra space needed within the hull.
I was just kind of hoping that this would give Us a in the rules example to bring in actual pop-up Barbettes and Bays. Kind of like the whole PODS thing.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Two major differences between mods and pods:
1. Mods are slotted in; pods are screwed in.
2. Pods have not been fleshed out.
1. Mods are slotted in; pods are screwed in.
2. Pods have not been fleshed out.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Or pods can be clamped on via docking clamps. Fleshing them out is fun.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
Whereas it had not previously been a problem, the recent changes caused error reporting to not like converting the small craft bridge crew to text.
Once that was fixed, the "#VALUE" error went away. So it wasn't No Bridge, so much as it couldn't add to check for accommodations.
Hotfix 2025.05.01e
Fixed error in Stateroom tab error checking
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
No, but I did fix the #VALUE thing.I'm getting #VALUE! errors on the Summary page. It happens when I choose No Bridge for a module.
And it is now only double charging me for Life Support on the Stateroom and Ship Info Ship's Expenses box. It's still counting all the people in the user defined low berth in both Quarters and People in the Life Support/Month box. Perhaps we don't need the Quarters line? Actually, after thinking about it more, it's doing it correctly. I should be setting a 0 value for the Life Support Costs per Ton value now, since the Low Berth toggle sets it properly for the calculation. Though that does mean that if there is a Life Support Cost per Ton value listed, it needs to override the People value unless the Cost per Ton value is in addition to the standard costs. Go ahead and ignore this, it's working as expected now that I know what is expected.
Got all that?
A low berth cost 100Cr per month per ton to operate (in addition to ship maintenance), and the person inside it costs 100Cr per month to be kept in a living state.
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Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
The adjustable hull requires 5% of the hull in panels, actuators etc, chances are the "pop up" is actually a panel or two moving to reveal the weapon firing port beneath, for example disguising the bay weapon firing port on a 400t subbie Q ship as the normal cargo bay doors...
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Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
I don't think that is the answer. The concealed maneuver drive is different to the way the maneuver drive is hidden with the adjustable hull option.
"ADJUSTABLE HULL
Large sections of the hull consist of bands and strips that change the hull’s overall shape, making the ship have the same outline as any other ship of the same tonnage, hull configuration, hull options and external systems, including mimicry of attached modules, although these are non functional. Other identification features such as the pattern of reactor and drive emissions can likewise be adjusted to enhance the deception. "
This is part of the adjustable hull package, you do not need the concealed maneuver drive option at all.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I think the concealed aspect being sensor detectability while under acceleration, not whether the vents are aesthetically disguised.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Concealed and Hidden mean the same thing. If I can completely block my ship's emissions simply by covering over my "thruster plates" and not have to suffer the penalties of 1/2 Thrust, then Adjustable Hull is way better than Concealed Drives eventhough the drives are now concealed.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I guess you could lift up the body of an automobile, say, a Fiat, and replace it with the body of a Ferrari.
You've changed the hull silhouette, but, somehow, doubt the infra red signature.
Unless, the Ferrari body has a stealth coating.
You've changed the hull silhouette, but, somehow, doubt the infra red signature.
Unless, the Ferrari body has a stealth coating.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
There is a difference between concealing and adjusting. Concealed drives try to prevent detection. Adjusting drives tries to prevent identification. Hiding from sensors versus tricking the sensors into thinking you are someone else, without actively blocking detection.
boggo2300
Cosmic Mongoose
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
You’re probably right.
I found this in The Riverland, so I’ll drop it here for completeness.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Is this another case of writers just including something that they think is cool without reading the already established rules for such things? What the hell is the point of buying a Variable Emission Drive if you can accomplish more with an Adjustable Hull? What is the point of buying a Concealed Drive when you can do the same thing with a Variable Emission Drive? It seems like there are too many things that basically do the same thing but use completely different rules for each component.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Concealed means that the drive is hidden. Adjusted refers to the hull being adjustable. You are not adjusting the drive, you are adjusting the hull to cover the drives, the same way that concealed drives do. You are literally putting hull over your thrusters which is the description of a concealed drive.
From the Concealed Maneuver Drive
"As such, thruster plates need not be exposed at all and can optionally be concealed behind bulkheads."
From Adjustable Hull
"ADJUSTABLE HULL Large sections of the hull consist of bands and strips that change the hull’s overall shape, making the ship have the same outline as any other ship of the same tonnage, hull configuration, hull options and external systems, including mimicry of attached modules, although these are non-functional. Other identification features such as the pattern of reactor and drive emissions can likewise be adjusted to enhance the deception."
So, an Adjustable Hull places the hull over the thrusters to change their drive emissions. Concealed Maneuver Drives use an immobile bulkhead which is basically the same material as the hull, so you are covering your thrusters in both cases with hull material.
Then you have the Variable Emission Drive which you can vary its output to disguise identification. So how does this interact with the Emission modifications from Adjustable Hull or Concealed Maneuver Drive?
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
Concealed is meant to be hidden.
Adjustable changes the signature
Variable can either mask the signature (edit: hide) or change the signature
