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ESG poll
- Thread starter Nomad
- Start date
Iron Domokun
Mongoose
deleted
Possibly our thinking is being coloured too much by the mechanics of older rulesets when we should concentrate more on effects.
I'd suggest declaring at the point the Lyran ship moves whether each of her ESGs are active in either Offensive (ramming) or Defensive (anti-drone AND anti-hellbore combined) mode.
If the ship ends her move within 2" (or whatever) of a valid target, any Offensive mode ESGs have carried out a successful ram, and damage is inflicted at that point, taking effect during the movement phase. Any enemy dumb or desperate enough to move within 2" of her later in the Movement Phase will also be attacked by the ESGs (although since there's no compulsory movement, why would that ever happen?). Only the first ship to come into contact will be attacked as the impact collapses the ESG field.
ESGs in Defensive mode will absorb "x amount" of drone AND/OR hellbore hits before being overwhelmed. Few games will see both drones and hellbores in use at the same time, so there isn't much point in discriminating.
Any ESGs used in either mode then require a Reload SA before they can be used again - their energy has been expended.
This is closer to the way things work in SFB than FC. IMHO SFB's take on ESGs was better balanced.
Typed labouriously on an HTC clearly designed for use by 14 year old Japanese schoolgirls rather than things like me with hands like a yeti.
I'd suggest declaring at the point the Lyran ship moves whether each of her ESGs are active in either Offensive (ramming) or Defensive (anti-drone AND anti-hellbore combined) mode.
If the ship ends her move within 2" (or whatever) of a valid target, any Offensive mode ESGs have carried out a successful ram, and damage is inflicted at that point, taking effect during the movement phase. Any enemy dumb or desperate enough to move within 2" of her later in the Movement Phase will also be attacked by the ESGs (although since there's no compulsory movement, why would that ever happen?). Only the first ship to come into contact will be attacked as the impact collapses the ESG field.
ESGs in Defensive mode will absorb "x amount" of drone AND/OR hellbore hits before being overwhelmed. Few games will see both drones and hellbores in use at the same time, so there isn't much point in discriminating.
Any ESGs used in either mode then require a Reload SA before they can be used again - their energy has been expended.
This is closer to the way things work in SFB than FC. IMHO SFB's take on ESGs was better balanced.
Typed labouriously on an HTC clearly designed for use by 14 year old Japanese schoolgirls rather than things like me with hands like a yeti.
How about we skip FedCmdr and go back to the SFB roots?
The ESG is declared "up" or "down" at before any ship moves. It might be too complex, but perhaps it could be set at radius 2", 3" or 4" (or 1 / 2 /3 inch, or 2 / 2.5 / 3 inch) with a strength of 4 / 3 / 2 dice, inverse to the radius.
During the movement phase, ANY ship that comes into contact of the ESG shell takes damage, and reduces the ESG strength. It doesn't matter whether the ESG ship moves or the other ship moves.
Any strength left over automatically protects from drone attacks.
The ESG is declared "up" or "down" at before any ship moves. It might be too complex, but perhaps it could be set at radius 2", 3" or 4" (or 1 / 2 /3 inch, or 2 / 2.5 / 3 inch) with a strength of 4 / 3 / 2 dice, inverse to the radius.
During the movement phase, ANY ship that comes into contact of the ESG shell takes damage, and reduces the ESG strength. It doesn't matter whether the ESG ship moves or the other ship moves.
Any strength left over automatically protects from drone attacks.
Garth, I agree with others who think the 'variable radii' aspect is too complex for ACTA.
The problem I see with 'all or nothing' use of ESGs is that in SFB you have an integrated turn sequence, and an opponent can choose how to react to ESGs going up. You can try to avoid them, or take them down with drones or HBs before closing. The turn sequence in ACTA does not allow this.
I'd like there to be some tactical choices to be made, and since the target isn't really in a position to make them in this game, it comes down to the attacker.
Something similar will be the case with ISC PPDs, but that's a whole different bucket of slugs.
The problem I see with 'all or nothing' use of ESGs is that in SFB you have an integrated turn sequence, and an opponent can choose how to react to ESGs going up. You can try to avoid them, or take them down with drones or HBs before closing. The turn sequence in ACTA does not allow this.
I'd like there to be some tactical choices to be made, and since the target isn't really in a position to make them in this game, it comes down to the attacker.
Something similar will be the case with ISC PPDs, but that's a whole different bucket of slugs.
I think that some sort of "pseudo-overload" rule could be a way of allowing the ESG to be run at two separate levels; one with a lower damage output but a more regular use, another with a heavier punch but the implied assumption of needing to re-fill the capacitors.
Actually, it would be neat if, whatever the Main Era rules end up as, there could be room to adjust it in order to reflect the pre-capacitor version seen in the Middle Years (should we ever get to that stage in this game).
Actually, it would be neat if, whatever the Main Era rules end up as, there could be room to adjust it in order to reflect the pre-capacitor version seen in the Middle Years (should we ever get to that stage in this game).
Realod (capacitor) vs Power Drain (no capacitor) sounds good.
Oh, I dug out the way ESGs work in Starmada; there, they only have a defensive role (and cannot be used offensively). Each ESG adjusts the shield rating of the ship in question in one direction when facing impacted drone or suicide shuttle attacks, and in the other when absorbing hellbore cannon shots. (You can see an example of how the ESGs are presented in that game here.)
Oh, I dug out the way ESGs work in Starmada; there, they only have a defensive role (and cannot be used offensively). Each ESG adjusts the shield rating of the ship in question in one direction when facing impacted drone or suicide shuttle attacks, and in the other when absorbing hellbore cannon shots. (You can see an example of how the ESGs are presented in that game here.)
Interesting. I don't have Distant Armada so I hadn't seen that. It's certainly a novel approach
One other thing. There should be a limit on how close Lyran ships can be to one another while using ESGs. Say you can't use Offensive-mode ESGs if you start or end your move within 4" of a friendly ship.
Not as much fun as tractoring one Lyran ship and shoving her into her mate's ESG field in SFB (happy days!) but it will have to do.
One other thing. There should be a limit on how close Lyran ships can be to one another while using ESGs. Say you can't use Offensive-mode ESGs if you start or end your move within 4" of a friendly ship.
Not as much fun as tractoring one Lyran ship and shoving her into her mate's ESG field in SFB (happy days!) but it will have to do.
All depends. In SFB, the ESG is a force shell that stays up for 32 movement impulses. In FedCmdr, it's a pulse that only lasts for one weapons fire phase. If ACTA uses a pulse, then it doesn't matter how close one gets to other ships during the movement phase. While it might be cool to ram doing a fly-by and end up eight or ten inchs away from the victim, as someone pointed out that prevents them from putting up a flock of drones to drop the ESG before getting rammed. Another thing that ESGs can do in SFB that it can't in FedCmdr (and I can't see how to do in ACTA) is to put a shell up around another ship to protect it. This is yet another way the ESG got neutered, which is why I'm leary of putting too many extra limitations (i.e., Power Drain, etc) on it.
Iron Domokun
Mongoose
deleted
Poi said:As a non-SFB player, I have no idea what an ESG is.
bit bloody stupid to post then wasn't it!. you know, why not go sign up for a load of forums on stuff you don't care about to tell them that?
Dan, wanna try some of these ideas out when we get to play? I Have kinda skipped through but think variable radii is out of the question, but the basic ideas around Da Boss's ideas sound plausible, and just need to be viewed at from a balance approach (he he he).
Of course lets try to keep it simple which is more in line with the AcTA approach to space copmbat than fed commander.
in fairness, I am not a player of say, warhammer, so i have no idea what a XXXX is, but as I don't play it, I don't log on to post, i don't play your game, so i don't know what XXXX is. pointless excercise. You sounded abrupt (which is fair, given I likewise responded to you abruptly) how about, i don't know what it is as I don't play the game, but I am interested and would like to know. It then doesn't come across as a negative statement.
if you wish to play the game, thats cool, but I also remember your postings from the B5 days, so regarding attitude, lets say pot, kettle, bury the hatchet and get on with it. If you wish to play, excelent, you know the basic rules, so have a good grounding in what to expect. maybe we can meet at a tourney, wipe the floor with each other and have a beer.
if you wish to play the game, thats cool, but I also remember your postings from the B5 days, so regarding attitude, lets say pot, kettle, bury the hatchet and get on with it. If you wish to play, excelent, you know the basic rules, so have a good grounding in what to expect. maybe we can meet at a tourney, wipe the floor with each other and have a beer.
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