Energy based Sniper Rifles?

[Jak Nazryth]

There are scores of slug throwers in the central supply book but few laser weapons. A player asked me if there was a sniper version of a laser rifle.

In Agent (page 97) they have invisobeam lasers which have a -4 DM for being spotted since the beam is completely invisible, even through light smoke, fog, mist, etc... I suppose that would be the laser equivalent of a sniper rifle by adding a scope.
Other than that I don't know of any reason (besides extra damage and range) to add a specialty laser rifle like they do with slug throwers.
Has anyone ever invented a laser sniper rifle before?

The Gauss Sniper Rifle is very nice by the way!

 

[rust]

A laser rifle is nice for use in a vacuum, but basically useless under envi-
ronmental conditions like rain or fog and in any situation where there is
dust or smoke in the atmosphere, so a laser sniper rifle would not make
much sense in a lot of situations - a normal projectile weapon would usu-
ally be more reliable.

 

[BFalcon]

rust: possibly in a high-crosswind environment - lasers aren't prone to wind drift, after all - another might be where you have variable density atmospheres (although that might lead to refraction in lasers, admittedly).

I can't think of a reason why, aside from those or for ZeroG uses, either (assassinate the politician as he opens the new grappling arm on the starbase?). Yes, I know I'm stretching here...

Of course, it's your Traveller universe, so if you feel a need, then let it be so...

 

[Jame Rowe]

I would think that a standard laser rifle (for longer range) or standard laser carbine (for medium range) would make an excellent sniper weapon on its own. Just add electronic sights for a long-range accuracy boost.

(Though if you crunchify your rules this much, I'd suggest x-ray lasers, which IMNHO should be TL11 if you decide to use them.)

 

[DFW]

In Agent (page 97) they have invisobeam lasers which have a -4 DM for being spotted since the beam is completely invisible, even through light smoke, fog, mist, etc...

ALL laser weapons of any higher TL (> 9) are invisible. Laser weapons are the ultimate sniper weapon as the are super accurate over long distances.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I've got no schooling on these such things but isn't it true that in general, the farther the target the more power the laser needs? Might weapons need to be designed differently for focusing power at their designed operating range?

 

[DFW]

I've got no schooling on these such things but isn't it true that in general, the farther the target the more power the laser needs? Might weapons need to be designed differently for focusing power at their designed operating range?

True of any weapon. Not a problem for sniper ranges though.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

In Agent (page 97) they have invisobeam lasers which have a -4 DM for being spotted since the beam is completely invisible, even through light smoke, fog, mist, etc...

ALL laser weapons of any higher TL (> 9) are invisible. Laser weapons are the ultimate sniper weapon as the are super accurate over long distances.

I wonder why Mongoose added inisobeam lasers then. Do ALL laser weapons over TL 9 get a -4 DM? On what page does that rule appear for +TL 9 laser weapons?

 

[DFW]

I wonder why Mongoose added inisobeam lasers then.

Because the author isn't aware of what can be & is done at TL 7.

 

[TC]

Laser Sniper Weapon System
add more range
add more accuracy(scope, whatnot)
add more damage
limit the number of shots due to the high out put for both cooling and energy depletion of the battery pack.
for the whizzbang feature, variable frequency to defeat reflect and whatnot to get the best penetration.

 

[BP]

For more immersive RP, I give my energy weapons distinctive 'hums' and 'buzzing'... 'sniper lasers' might be optically invisible under ideal conditions (though who usefully sees a bullet ripping through the air, even a subsonic one - and muzzle flash can be avoided and is generally undetectable from range to allow dodging), but I'd still give 'em a give-away audible tell-tale. :wink:

 

[far-trader]

More of a give away than any audible or visual tell a laser will have one heck of an electronic signature from the power source fast discharge. Not that it couldn't have its own version of a suppressor of course, at added expense and mass. Though it won't be something an unaided human would detect (except if very close), at those TLs your concern will more be all the aided and enhanced sensor capability that will detect the electronic signature.

As for tunable to defeat Reflec armour, the inability to do so (imo) and the lightweight hidden nature of Reflec armour are probably the primary reasons I've never done sniper lasers. High value targets are protected from laser shots (or have to be presumed to be since you can't easily tell) so you go with tried and true slug rifles, usually gauss rifles at the TLs of lasers.

 

[DFW]

More of a give away than any audible or visual tell a laser will have one heck of an electronic signature from the power source fast discharge.

Much like our mil observation aircraft detect something as small as a rotor (car engine) from miles away...

 

[BFalcon]

I'm not sure about the electronics making enough noise to be heard by the target (especially since we're talking speed of light here), but I do like the 40k books version of a snap-hiss as the laser superheats all the particles in the air as it passes through (presumably water, pollen, dust etc)... certainly a distinctive noise compared to solid projectile - but a lot quieter, so you'd need to be practically on top of the target yourself to hear it (a few feet at most I'd say, maybe a couple of dozen...). I assume your hums are based on similar thinking, BP?

Perhaps the best reason for not using one would be the reflec armour, but then they can't cover the head with that without being obvious, so... perhaps it would be useful - you'd just need a headshot (not too hard with a straight-line weapon compared to a projectile weapon which is prone to drop or drift...?).

Maybe a multi-use weapon? Kinda like the rifle/pistol/smg some weapons can swap between... Fit this module it's a gauss-rifle, fit this one and it's a chemical projectile weapon, fit this one and it's a laser... and the scope works with the on-board computer to work out where the projectile will hit... not beyond the realms of possiblity given the high technology levels we're usually talking and an assassin would get the best tech he could afford if it helped to get the job done.

 

[far-trader]

I'm not sure about the electronics making enough noise to be heard by the target (especially since we're talking speed of light here)...

Well, no I'm not talking about the target hearing the shot, or it being any good to them to hear the shot itself. However elint will pick up and precisely locate the firing point at the same time and if keyed to its own counter-sniper system take out the sniper. All in less than a second, with technology we have now though it may not be widely used or even put together in such a configuration.

I'm saying it is doable, has been talked about, but is likely neither officially confirmed or denied For conventional anti-sniper fire obviously, and based on sound, we don't have portable lasers or gauss weapons yet, and I believe the counter fire is in the form of a rocket or mortar so there is a potential for collateral damage. Making it an automated sniper weapon response instead is simply an engineering problem

I was more thinking, depending on the source of power (backpack hpg power plant lasers mostly, but possibly even more portable power systems or battery powered fast discharge capacitors) giving away the laser weapon BEFORE it has fired. Depending on the cycle it could be a fraction of a second or longer. Also probably dependent on the time between deciding to take the shot and actually pulling the trigger (since you want the laser charged to fire but not necessarily fired while selecting the perfect moment. That could be a couple seconds or several. All during which time your laser sniper is being counter-snipered by automatic defenses. All presuming a high value high tech target of course. But then you won't be using sophisticated sniper assets against anything else will you.

This is where conventional weapons beat the laser, they don't need charging up prior to pulling the trigger (except gauss rifles, which will have a similar electronic signature as that of lasers). A sniper with a simple cpr rifle can sit with their sights on the target and finger on the trigger till the cows come home without giving away anything and the instant they want to pull the trigger the bullet is in flight.

Pros and cons to both lasers and cpr (and gauss). As it should be. No one tool is perfect for every job, as much as some people will insist on pounding screws into wood with a hammer

 

[BP]

Ah - in the case of a sniper weapon - no tell-tales would likely be perceivable by the target (usefully ), that being part of the objective as it were...

But others nearer to the weapon would likely pick it up - and depending on background and training might have an inkling of what is transpiring, or about to.

As posted - this is for roleplay benefits (i.e. somewhat cinematic).

In RL, the high energy lasers I've been exposed to (pun) in work settings have all been accompanied by quite audible associated noises - but that is mostly a matter of large scale support equipment (transformers, cooling pumps, caps, etc...) and probably the material being cut interacting with the gases in the air and from being rapidly cooled (in the case of one very impressive industrial system). I've never heard a Hollywood style zap from a laser itself or any discernible sound from vaporized metal (but then again, the background noises where so loud I probably wouldn't).

They also wouldn't fit in a van, much less on a sniper's tripod (One went up 3 stories...).

Of course, a laser designed to kill might not need to be as powerful as the ones I'm experienced with, though atmo attenuation for range might necessitate a good deal of power. It might be relatively low in the event of a soft target - i.e. exposed human head - and just firing for intended effect (i.e. just 'frying' the brain enough) as opposed to fully penetrating or destroying the target.

 

[BP]

... However elint will pick up and precisely locate the firing point at the same time and if keyed to its own counter-sniper system take out the sniper. All in less than a second, with technology we have now though it may not be widely used or even put together in such a configuration.

Yeah - energy weps will invariably have EM signatures detectable at some range. Of course, this can also be accounted for in counter detection measures (EM shielding, masking and camo).

The same with audible detection.

High TL devices that do pattern recognition on actual matter and configuration would ultimately be the best bet - and still be defeat-able in the end - but not likely with a human in the execution (pun) loop.

... A sniper with a simple cpr rifle can sit with their sights on the target and finger on the trigger till the cows come home without giving away anything ...

Unless one goes lower tech... i.e. munitions smelling canine (or Vargr! ).

Speaking of which - another roleplay element I like to use is smells. In a clean environment (i.e. non-smokers ), I can sometimes smell a weapon from several feet away - its the oil/propellent contaminants to be sure, but there is a distinct smell I associate with a firearm. (I also know when someone has an opened a newspaper nearby - the chemicals make me nauseous in enclosed spaces... so I'd give myself a positive DM for detecting a newspaper concealed firearm. 8) )

Electronic sniffers would be used in a high TL society - detecting nervous/stressed individuals in a crowd as well as munitions and perhaps even the minuet out-gassing of distinctive combinations of materials utilized in various weapon systems.

... No one tool is perfect for every job, as much as some people will insist on pounding screws into wood with a hammer

Therapeutic Construction technique #102... :lol:

 

[DFW]

However elint will pick up and precisely locate the firing point at the same time and if keyed to its own counter-sniper system take out the sniper. All in less than a second, with technology we have now though it may not be widely used or even put together in such a configuration.

Currently, used by ground support aircraft to take out with missile or gun fire...

 

[rust]

Unless one goes lower tech... i.e. munitions smelling canine (or Vargr! ).

"A little chili pepper on assassination day keeps the doggie or Vargr away ..." 8)

More precisely a little capsaicin, which is the substance which makes
chili pepper "hot" and is the main ingredient of pepper spray. Pure
capsaicin is about 3,000 times as "hot" as chili pepper, and any dog
which inhales even a minimal amount of it is "out of business" for a
while.

 

[zozotroll]

However elint will pick up and precisely locate the firing point at the same time and if keyed to its own counter-sniper system take out the sniper. All in less than a second, with technology we have now though it may not be widely used or even put together in such a configuration.

Currently, used by ground support aircraft to take out with missile or gun fire...

We can currently detect Artillery rounds in the air, and get counter-fire on thier point of origin before they land. And have had that capability for a number of years. But, nobody trusts the system to get it right, so a human is in the loop to prevent blue on blue engagements. Good idea, the computer sure doesnt care.

So a similar system to get a sniper is not unlikely. And a human in the loop still, so you dont take out your own counter sniper team.

There are those of course that will argue that AIs will be able to do it. Well, maybe. And likely, maybe not. Just as Laser pistols are not very likely to ever happen. But hey, its a game that has Laser pisdtols, so why no good AIs as well.