Encumbrance

[Trifletraxor]

In the new rules, the encumbrance you can carry without being overloaded is determined by your STR + SIZ. Previously, this was determined by STR + CON, which I find a bit more natural.

What's you opinions?

SGL.

 

[canology]

I agree with you that that seems more natural. It seems that the assumption that a bigger person would be able to carry more is really just a function of STR.

Perhaps it is simply a question of scale, a smaller person having a large weapon be more bulky compared to his size than a bigger person.

In some ways though, having a larger size means you have more of your own weight to carry around.

Maybe ENC should be based on STR+STR+CON-SIZ?

I suspect the math-phobes will now proceed to explode :twisted:

 

[Utgardloki]

I like that carrying capacity is determined by STR + SIZ. After all, a larger creature will have an easier time carrying something like a minivan than a duck who somehow gained the strength to lift it.

However, I don't like the way Encumbrance works in Runequest. I appreciate what the rules try to do, which is to abstract "carryability" into an Encumbrance number rather than tally up the pounds individually. But I think in practice, it's probably simpler just to tally up the pounds.

In my own game, my intention is to use STR to determine how much you can carry. (A creature can carry a number of pounds determined by STR without having to roll, has to make a Brute Force check to carry more, and is unable to carry more than a STR-determined limit.)

SIZ could be used to determine cumbersomeness, with a creature being ungainly encumbered if she tries to carry more than her SIZ. Problems: 1) this makes encumbrance more complicated; 2) my house rules only work if SIZ is determined by mass instead of volume, so that a SIZ 15 object made out of solid gold would be a lot smaller than a SIZ 15 creature.

Perhaps a compromise is to bring back ENC, where ENC = SIZ for a "standard density object" like a normal living creature (50 pounds per cubic foot). But this complicates things again, however as long as I remember that SIZ is logarithmic it might work out (stone and gold objects might add to SIZ to determine ENC; I'll have to consider the math when I get home).

I'm kind of thinking out loud here. It seems the best thing to do is just forget about ENC and use pounds or kilograms.

(Another thought -- pounds is force and kilograms is mass. If I intend to take Runequest into space, I'll need to keep those concepts separate.)

 

[RosenMcStern]

One unnecessary simplification in the rules was that of disallowing decimal values for ENC. These values must be added/subtracted only, so there is no complex math required to keep track of decimals.

Plus someone should explain me in which way a shield is as encumbering as a sword. :shock:

 

[Exubae]

Con would logically tied to the amount of time you could carry 'stuff' and resist fatigue likely.
Siz still seems a bit odd though - Common items you assume are relative to the character size... ie clothes, every day equipment, would be negible across size ranges.

erm... when you start moving to weapons etc, things become a little different - a Uz War maul scaled to a Trollkin would be single stick sizish if you take this line of thought... so I suppose a relative scale doesn't hold water, when considering an items effect.

Starting Rambling....

 

[small-god-jove]

I always thought that encumbrance is an abstract value that takes into account the objects bulk as well as its weight. A larger creature with a relatively low strength will have an easier time carrying a long object, for example a plank of wood, than a smaller but stronger creature, maybe?
The CON of the carrier will determine how long they can carry things for, but not necessarily the size, or mass, of the object carried, this falls in the realm of fatigue.
This is just my pov. No offence intended to anyone

 

[Trifletraxor]

Hmm... I'm just thinking about the old dwarves. They could muster up in dead heavy armor and march for hours. Skyhigh STR and CON in a tiny package. Now, with SIZ being for fatigue, they suddenly can't carry that much more.

With higher SIZ, often comes higher STR. But I still don't really see the connection between SIZ and fatigue.

SGL.

 

[Utgardloki]

A larger creature (assuming a "normal" biology) would have greater energy reserves to call upon, and thus could be expected to tire less easily. OTOH, just moving its own mass would take more energy, so it might balance out.

Thoughts: Make carrying capacity based on STR + SIZ, and fatigue based on CON. Thus SIZE helps you carry large objects because you can lift/balance them more easily, but CON helps you carry objects farther because you can make your Stamina rolls to avoid fatigue more easily.

Dwarves could be given a bonus, or just given a higher STR to compensate. I would probably go with the STR route, so a dwarf could carry a massive amount of equipment (given its size).

OTOOH, I think it easiest just to make carrying capacity depend on STR, fatigue rolls depend on CON, and apply special modifiers if someone is carrying an object or total objects of greater SIZE than its own SIZE. (Thus, a normal person carrying a 10 foot long balloon would have no problem lifting it, but would definitely be hampered if he tried to carry it.)

 

[Trifletraxor]

Hmm... Carry capacity STR x2 ENC? Might be worth thinking about.

SGL.

 

[Utgardloki]

Hmm... Carry capacity STR x2 ENC? Might be worth thinking about.

I think the problem of adding ENC values is another complication of the MRQ system. Really, 20 ENC n items won't require twice the STR to carry as 10 ENC n items (assuming these are packaged in a handy carrying case).

I'm not really sure how ENC should be compared to STR. Another reason for not using it, except perhaps as a measure of "unwieldliness". (A weapon used by a giant might have an ENC of 15 for example, making it impossible to wield for normal humans, and very difficult even for very strong humans.)

Otherwise, it may be possible to rule carry capacity equals STR ENC, with ENC values calculated accordingly. The most important thing to consider is that it probably will not work out to add 10 ENC 1 items and get an ENC 10 items.

Back to SIZ, I think one concept is that if the items are NOT in a handy carrying case, a large creature has an advantage. A giant could easily put several boxes in his hand that a human would individually consider bulky. A human who somehow had the same STR (through magic) might have a very very difficult time carrying these same boxes all at once because he'd have to carefully balance the stack, even if the boxes were really mostly empty and very light.

But then it probably makes more sense to do what one D&D GM did, and just say "I may ask you hard questions [about how you are carrying your items]."