Empires of the Hyborian age What happened to it???

[flatscan]

The common answer here when a Runequest Conan is mentioned is that Runequest players should just buy the OGL stuff and convert it to Runequest. So why don't you guys just buy the Runequest Empires book and convert it? :wink:

Well, yes. Some of us have bought 40 books, boxes, or materials for this game, not to mention PDFs, all in OGL. And it's AWESOME! I've enjoyed the hell out of every session I've run. I understand there are people that would rather it be in their preferred non-OGL system, but geez, there's 40 products out on the market for this line. How many RPGs out there can say that? OGL Conan has been successful. Why change this? :?:

 

[zozotroll]

Why indeed? While I would like to see MRQ Conan, I would certainly not want to see it at the expense of d20 Conan. I was buying up all I could, but this mystery not quite an announcement has put me on hold. Aperemntly for some months.

 

[Teriudin]

I'm hoping it isn't some dramatic change, but rather maybe a refocusing/reorganizing/rebalancing of the current published material. There is probably a fair bit of stuff that could be consolidated into errata or something. Its too late for me to estimate what that would look like, or even where to begin, but I'm all for keeping OGL but making moves that make it more sword and sorcery and less OGL, if that makes any sense.

 

[GMAN]

I don't really think a new edition is really needed right now, second edition hasn't been out that long and realising a new one so soon after the second edition would just be a pain for everyone who has just forked over the cash for the new edition.

There have been lots of people talking about a Runequest Conan, i've never played RuneQuest so i don't know whats so good about the system. But if that is the big announcement i would suggest any supplemets released should include rules for both systems.

Of course, a new system or new edition is just speculation. Hopefully the big announcement will be for something cool for the second edition. I know there were talks of an Atlas, maybe the announcement will just be a whole heap of new supplements.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Reading between the lines, my guess is the big news is a MRQ version of Conan. I think Mongoose must have renegotiated the licence, and are now able to produce two versions of the Conan rpg.

Just my guesswork though.

 

[Azgulor]

The common answer here when a Runequest Conan is mentioned is that Runequest players should just buy the OGL stuff and convert it to Runequest. So why don't you guys just buy the Runequest Empires book and convert it? :wink:

While realizing there's some sarcasm involved in the above post, I'll give my non-sarcastic reasons.

1. I've invested $100s (closer to $1000 than $500) in the Conan OGL RPG. I have no intention of abandoning that investment in favor of another, possibly inferior (for my group's campaign) system when Conan OGL works great for us.

1a. Just b/c I have that investment doesn't mean I don't wish to purchase additional material. I just want the material to be useful to my campaign.

2. Many times, game mechanics do not translate well between systems. So a Hyborian Empires-MRQ version may ultimately add little, if anything to my game.

2a. I want to design campaigns, adventures, NPCs, and plots. I don't want to be a game designer and adapt rules.

3. I can mix-n-match Conan OGL with the lion's share of OGL-compatible material on the market -- of which I have invested $1000s.

4. My group has no desire to switch. However, I would like to continue to play the current game as I am always looking to recruit new players.

4a. I'm still finding it easier to get d20/OGL players than any other RPG system --- bar none.

5. I don't have the desire to build up a MRQ library, which even if I had the funds and desire to do so, it would not provide me the same breadth of material that I have to work with using d20/OGL.

6. I can adapt 3.x/d20 adventures to Conan. Yes, some may be hardly recognizable when finished - but it can be done. It can also be done with less work than adapting the adventure to MRQ.

7. I wish to continue to support Mongoose & their support of the Conan RPG line. I have at least 1 copy of every Conan OGL book: 1st edition, Atlantean, pocket edition, and 2nd edition. I continue to purchase 2nd edition suppliments. If Conan goes MRQ, that stops. Not out of spite, I just can't justify the expediture. I've got a wife, kids, mortgage, college funds to save for, etc. My discretionary income for RPGs has to go towards something I'll use, not just read. (Especially in this economy.)


I also think the common/vocal theme of "OGL has soooo many books / it's MRQ's turn" doesn't hold water (with me anyway). That's about on par with "movies? oh, they were good back in the day but everything is X now" or "RPGs, why they've had a 40-year run, it's time to pass the torch to <hobby of choice>".

 

[Teriudin]

I have to agree, for me MRQ would be slightly dissapointing. It automatically means that every book I buy I'm spending something for something I will never use. Which means that marginal books for me will be books I choose not to own going forward.

Two systems will either dilute the content that becomes available or gradually lean one way or the other.

But, I digress. We are expecting good news and I wait patiently for it.

 

[rabindranath72]

The fact that Conan is compatible with other OGL sources is something which will not last forever. For all practical purposes (i.e. presence on the market) d20 and derivatives as a system is dead. New customers of the d20 Conan game who previously did not own anything d20 will not find on the market other sources to integrate into their games, with the possible exception of Pathfinder, which however seems even farther from Conan than D&D was. Considering that Mongoose has already an in-house system for fantasy (RQ) and one for modern/sci-fi (Traveller), having a different line for fantasy just for Conan seems a waste of resources.

 

[Demetrio]

For all practical purposes (i.e. presence on the market) d20 and derivatives as a system is dead

Erm, I'm not so sure about that. You may well wish that to be the case but...

A) Huge numbers of gamers will still have vast quantities of old d20 material lying around. One of my friends must have about 200 assorted 3.0 and 3.5 adventure books cluttering his house, probably half of which he hasn't actually run or played. And I suspect he ain't unique.

B) One could have said the same of Runequest at one point...

C) There is still stacks of stuff available via pdf download from RPGNow etc. Why on earth would that get withdrawn?

If Mongoose wants to convert Conan to a percentile system the it will do so. Personally I think that simply working out the quirks of the current d20 version would be a better bet.

 

[Azgulor]

The fact that Conan is compatible with other OGL sources is something which will not last forever. For all practical purposes (i.e. presence on the market) d20 and derivatives as a system is dead. New customers of the d20 Conan game who previously did not own anything d20 will not find on the market other sources to integrate into their games, with the possible exception of Pathfinder, which however seems even farther from Conan than D&D was. Considering that Mongoose has already an in-house system for fantasy (RQ) and one for modern/sci-fi (Traveller), having a different line for fantasy just for Conan seems a waste of resources.

Since the OGL cannot be revoked, and WotC recently modified the GSL so that it is no longer the poison pill for OGL content it once was, the facts speak against your assertion.

1. The vast (and still growing) OGL content available in PDF isn't going anywhere.

2. Used sources of older d20/OGL print material will be easily available for the forseeable future - certainly much easier to obtain than older RuneQuest material.

3. Pathfinder will pick up the OGL torch and while it will have differences, will still be easier to modfiy for Conan than a RuneQuest sourcebook would be.

4. Green Ronin has reissued their d20 library as 3rd Era books via print on demand.

5. True 20 also isn't going anywhere and since it uses feats, the mechanics aren't incompatible.

6. Never mind the fact that even if another 3.x/d20/OGL book were never printed again, the volume of what's been released would dwarf even what a great company like Mongoose could release in the same span of time.

7. Other companies are looking at the Pathfinder OGL license and are considering developing material for Pathfinder just like they did for D&D3.x.

Now will any of this have any relevance to the Mongoose announcement? I don't know. However, given the items above, it looks like my gaming $s will be able to find OGL content -- which I'll use to enhance my Conan game.

 

[rabindranath72]

yes, PoD, Pathfinder, OGL cannot be retracted etc. BUT there is nowhere the wealth of material that has existed in the last 10 years (and the reason why d20 Conan existed in the first place: because the market WAS d20 based). Now that D&D 3.x is dead, the market is not d20 based anymore.

Obviously you can use all of the material you have; obviously you can go hunt in discount bins for out of print products. But the point is introducing new people to the game, and selling the products to new people who have never heard of d20 (just this week end I am going to play with people who only know about 4e).
A guy who buys now d20 Conan, how many compatible products can find on the market? How many sellers will continue to produce d20 products just for Pathfinder? d20 products existed in huge quantities since D&D was d20. Now D&D is not d20 anymore. Is even compatibility with other d20 products desired? And who cares about past RQ products when there is a new edition?

Obviously all of you guys who have invested $$$$ of dollars in d20 in general and d20 Conan will be royally pi$$ed off. I have spent at most 200$ in total between d20 general books and d20 Conan books, so I do not care one IOTA about d20 Conan, or d20 in general nor about RQ (I have Stormbringer and CoC and that's it).

But if I were Mongoose I would not invest resources in a dead system, which also has the undesirable characteristic of NOT being easy for beginners (as Matt already said), when I already have two lines which can handle every possible genre. If Conan goes RQ, I (Mongoose) can possibly make them interested also in the other books and settings I have to offer, and it's a double win.

Obviously no one of the d20 Conan lovers will agree with the above, and that's ok. The future will tell

 

[Demetrio]

You keep saying the system is dead. I pretty much guarantee that there are more 3.5 gamers than percentile gamers still. And will be for quite some time. 3.x outsold very other system by miles. The fanbase is huge and remains. Please note, I'm not one of them, though I old rather Conan remained d20.

Sure, the new generation will be 4thed freaks. But you're delusional if you think they'd prefer Conan to be percentile based rather than d20.

Now, Mongoose customers may well favour percentile over d20. And if so it may be a good move for Mongoose to convet Conan. But that' sod all to do with the 'dead' d20. If it's dead, it's a Lich and RQ a second level cleric...

 

[rabindranath72]

You keep saying the system is dead. I pretty much guarantee that there are more 3.5 gamers than percentile gamers still. And will be for quite some time. 3.x outsold very other system by miles. The fanbase is huge and remains. Please note, I'm not one of them, though I old rather Conan remained d20.

Sure, the new generation will be 4thed freaks. But you're delusional if you think they'd prefer Conan to be percentile based rather than d20.

Now, Mongoose customers may well favour percentile over d20. And if so it may be a good move for Mongoose to convet Conan. But that' sod all to do with the 'dead' d20. If it's dead, it's a Lich and RQ a second level cleric...

I guess my point is not clear enough. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT D20 CONAN NOR RQ. So, do not speak about "delusion" or similar s**t like it was something I have a stake in, or I am a fanboy which absolutely wants things to go his way. I am simply stepping into Mongoose shoes.

A business needs to plan for TOMORROW, not for today or yesterday. There are 1000s of players who own d20 based products, but that is the present and the past. You want a market which grows, not that stays stationary. You will not see a d20 market growth as in the past for the simple reason that D&D 3.x is DEAD. MORTO. KAPUT.

So, overall, I can only see reasons for Mongoose to change Conan to a different game system rather than stay with the current one. Which game system? RQ obviously, since they own it. There is no sense in changing for change's sake.
If I could choose, as much as I like BRP (but NOT the RQ incarnation) I would go with a very rules-light system, but that is not going to happen. But I am not going to bend myself out of shape in one way or another.

 

[flatscan]

Now, Mongoose customers may well favour percentile over d20.

I don't even think that statement is true. SOME Mongoose customers may prefer percentile. Some is not all or necessarily a majority. I'm a Mongoose customer and percentile systems can suck my left nut for all I care about 'em. I think the guys at Mongoose WISH a majority of customers wanted percentile so they could peddle RuneQuest on more people. But I don't know ANYBODY in Austin that plays that game. I see the RQ books on the game shelves and they just sit there. The Conan books on the other hand get picked up by a good number of people. Maybe this is just how it goes in the states and in Europe the percentile systems are favored? I dunno. But switching systems cannot go over well. It's been tried by different companies and it always leaves a customer base feeling betrayed. Dual-statting is barely better because it drives up the costs of producing the books. And I don't want to pay $10 extra per book to have a bunch of rules crap I can't/won't use. I hope all this speculation turns out to be just that and Mongoose is doing something completely unrelated to RuneQuest. :evil:

 

[rabindranath72]

An interesting perspective from someone who was well into the d20 market:

http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6207&p=25324#p25324

This may give an hint as to where d20 is going to go in the near future.

 

[MongooseMatt]

This may give an hint as to where d20 is going to go in the near future.

Or it may not - we have access to figures with regards to 4e and the hobby trade. Our perspective is. . . different to Joe's (though I have no doubt he will, as he says, be publishing for many years to come).

 

[Scorpion13]

yes, PoD, Pathfinder, OGL cannot be retracted etc. BUT there is nowhere the wealth of material that has existed in the last 10 years (and the reason why d20 Conan existed in the first place: because the market WAS d20 based). Now that D&D 3.x is dead, the market is not d20 based anymore.

Obviously you can use all of the material you have; obviously you can go hunt in discount bins for out of print products. But the point is introducing new people to the game, and selling the products to new people who have never heard of d20 (just this week end I am going to play with people who only know about 4e).
A guy who buys now d20 Conan, how many compatible products can find on the market? How many sellers will continue to produce d20 products just for Pathfinder? d20 products existed in huge quantities since D&D was d20. Now D&D is not d20 anymore. Is even compatibility with other d20 products desired? And who cares about past RQ products when there is a new edition?

Obviously all of you guys who have invested $$$$ of dollars in d20 in general and d20 Conan will be royally pi$$ed off. I have spent at most 200$ in total between d20 general books and d20 Conan books, so I do not care one IOTA about d20 Conan, or d20 in general nor about RQ (I have Stormbringer and CoC and that's it).

But if I were Mongoose I would not invest resources in a dead system, which also has the undesirable characteristic of NOT being easy for beginners (as Matt already said), when I already have two lines which can handle every possible genre. If Conan goes RQ, I (Mongoose) can possibly make them interested also in the other books and settings I have to offer, and it's a double win.

Obviously no one of the d20 Conan lovers will agree with the above, and that's ok. The future will tell

How do you know D20 is dead? Because the current edition of D&D isnt D20? The entire market is not dictated by Wizards of the Coast. I mean, I knew this was true even when 3.5 was in full swing.

And the system is dead when nobody is producing material for it. That is not true. WOTC and other companies arent producing d20 material. Other people are. It is not a dead system.

 

[MongooseMatt]

It is not a dead system.

It is if you are a full-time publisher - the numbers are just not there any more.

Now, Conan _is_ different. When we dropped the D20 logo on our OGL books (and put a big Conan logo on the front, natch), we did move those games away from the D20 system, in thought if not completely in deed.

This is why Conan, as a game, has lasted far beyond D20's own sell-by date. Mutants & Masterminds (to grab a random example) is another that did this.

 

[rabindranath72]

It is not a dead system.

It is if you are a full-time publisher - the numbers are just not there any more.

Now, Conan _is_ different. When we dropped the D20 logo on our OGL books (and put a big Conan logo on the front, natch), we did move those games away from the D20 system, in thought if not completely in deed.

This is why Conan, as a game, has lasted far beyond D20's own sell-by date. Mutants & Masterminds (to grab a random example) is another that did this.

Legalities apart, it's true that you can take elements from another d20 product and use it with d20 Conan (I did it as long as I played d20 Conan). But how much is it desirable that the success of a game depends on the game system, or on the parallel success of other games who use the same system? When there was D&D 3.x on the market, the "pull" (or numbers as you call them) for other d20 games was strong. But now? I do not have data, but if I had to bet on it, I would not. As an independent, I would rather bet on an in-house system (like True 20 or MRQ)

 

[Azgulor]

True20 is no more, or less, an in-house system than the Conan OGL RPG.