[Elric of Melnibone] General vs. Specific Veneration

[Maedhros]

From p. 118 under "General Veneration of a Power":

The Gifts available to general disciples depend on how much POW has been dedicated and also the value of the Pact. This is a key difference between general veneration and specific veneration. Those who dedicate to a patron god usually have free-rein over what Gifts can be chosen with the amount of the POW dedication being the only governing factor on what Gifts are available.

Am I missing something? I see no requirements (for Gifts) related to the value of the Pact at all. Further, it seems to me that venerating a patron god is more restricted, not less.

For example, one making a general Pact with Chaos can spend as much POW as they want and choose any of the available Gifts. One making a Pact with the Sword Rulers can only spend up to 1/4 of their POW and can choose one Gift from those available.

Where am I going wrong?

 

[Loz]

First of all, the range of gifts available to general veneration is more restricted than for a patron lord. Second, most gifts, if you read the gift description, comes with a minimum skill or stat requirement ('Tireless' - CON 13 or higher or Resilience 60% or higher or example).

Committing to a patron gives access to gifts beyond these basic ones, and one does not need to meet any minimum skill or stat criteria. A cult though, may require you to dedicated more POW than general veneration - but dedicated POW does not always translate into a gift.

 

[Maedhros]

First of all, the range of gifts available to general veneration is more restricted than for a patron lord. Second, most gifts, if you read the gift description, comes with a minimum skill or stat requirement ('Tireless' - CON 13 or higher or Resilience 60% or higher or example).

Committing to a patron gives access to gifts beyond these basic ones, and one does not need to meet any minimum skill or stat criteria. A cult though, may require you to dedicated more POW than general veneration - but dedicated POW does not always translate into a gift.

Okay, that makes sense.

General Veneration still seems out-of-whack. Joining the Cult of a Power (e.g. Sword Rulers, Arkyn) has definite limits, as governed by the Pact and Cult rules in the core rules. One starts as an Initiate, then with deeds and experience advances up the rank ladder gaining benefits as one ascends.

However, General Veneration seems like so much of a better - and faster - way to go. There is no limit on POW dedicated (unlike for Initiates, who can only dedicate up to 1/4 of available POW). Someone with even a moderate amount of POW (10-12) can end up with multiple Gifts matched with Compulsions of varying efficacy (cf. Armor Rejection with Water Consumer). It's not at all hard to have a starting character with Sword Skill at 100%, regenerating 4 HP/round, a+1d8 damage modifier and not needing to breathe - and all of that would only cost 7 dedicated POW. That's a fine goal to which to aspire, but it seems a bit much for a starting PC.

In the discussion of General Veneration, it talks about how the available Gifts are dependent on the amount of POW dedicated and also on the value of the Pact skill. However, I can find no reference at all regarding limitations on Gifts with respect to Pact value. The text also says that there is no limit on the amount of POW that can be dedicated, but that "there will be a certain point where high dedications are simply not necessary." Perhaps not necessary, but I can't imagine why a PC wouldn't drop every available point of POW int a general Pact and pile on the Gifts.

Again, I feel I'm missing some essential mechanic that tones down the General Veneration a bit. I've been trying to find one, and I'm just not seeing it. In the literature (I'm reading "Stealer of Souls" right now), Gifts are pretty rare and any given character only has one, or maybe two. The rules as written encourage stacking up as many as possible.

 

[Loz]

Hi Maedhros,

I've replied to your post on RPG.net too.

The essential tool you're missing here is you and how you manage your players, characters and campaign. Its about managing the story you tell.

If you feel, as GM, that either dedicated cult or general veneration will lead to over-powered, souped-up mega characters, its up to you to manage it. Cult membership should be a prize, not a right. It should be something characters work towards through campaign play instead of beginning with it as part of character generation.

Look no further than the saga itself. Elric has a great deal revealed to him through his adventures. He rarely encounters sorcerers are enpacted individuals - when he does, they have made grave bargains and are paying for it in subtle ways, as he himself does.

The rules and mechanics are there to let you replicate and play in the Elric saga, but not every rule or every concept - sorcery and cult membership specifically - should be there as day one character options. Read between the lines and think back to the saga. Think about how you want your campaign to map-out. Just because we've written something into the rules, to ensure completeness and veracity, doesn't mean you have to offer it wholesale or make it available from the get-go.

So plan your campaign. Manage the expectations of your players. Be subtle. Ensure that if, or when, they join a cult, the process has been earned and fits with the saga. Make the compulsions they rack-up mean something. Make the choices they make mean something. Ensure that powers like the ones offered come at a very hefty price.