EA 3rd age weak?

[CZuschlag]

When you use a ship's Pentacon ability, you make he opponent move a ship before you do, but not a specific ship. So, you can make him move something .... say, an Olympus, Hermes .... but it's your opponent's choice, not yours. It's like having the ability to "pass" your turn in chess.

 

[Omnipotent]

I have yet to see the day two omegas actually destroy a Targrath with there beams. And a Dilgar player would not concentrate there missiles on an omega, the ini sinks would be dropped first...There is another problem with the Omegas being able to target the Targraths, if there is even one stellar object on the battlefield then it is really not that hard to dodge the omegas by moving behind the object, since the omega is not only slow but also lumbering.

Had a game against EA early years yesterday, played centauri, who have a similiar gaming style as the dilgar, and I had a much harder fight. Those saggitterius are a good concept, and as my EA opponent stated, NO BORESIGHT WOHOO! :lol:

 

[Tolwyn]

Jup, that could happen. The early EA is IMO the best EA list.

 

[CZuschlag]

Tolwyn, agreed, but I think that is systemic to the Early EA fleet. They have the solid low-end ships (Hyperion Rail and Saggitarius in particular, but I wonder just how vile a fleet with a lot of Olympus Gunships in squadrons could be), and due to the 2nd Ed. fleet point breakdowns strongly rewarding the purchase of many smaller ships than the big ones puts Early EA at a systemic advantage.

Should the efficiency of buying down be addressed as a playbalance issue in a future release, you'll see Early EA, Centauri, Vree, and Narn diminish and the rise of Minbari, Crusade EA, Vorlons, Shadows, and Psicorps. Huge Hangars might need a rebuild if this is done, however, as the Drakh big ships ARE actually a lot of small ships, and that opens a rather large can of wormage.

 

[Tolwyn]

Should the efficiency of buying down be addressed as a playbalance issue in a future release, you'll see Early EA, Centauri, Vree, and Narn diminish and the rise of Minbari, Crusade EA, Vorlons, Shadows, and Psicorps. Huge Hangars might need a rebuild if this is done, however, as the Drakh big ships ARE actually a lot of small ships, and that opens a rather large can of wormage.

Thats is something I would really like to see very very soon 8)

 

[Green_Knight]

Analyse the enemy fleet:

if it has this amoutn of Dilgar Missiles he has two disadvantages:
- his main weapontry is slow loading
- his main weapontry is AP only and has nearly no beams

resolution:
high armor is the key and high hull values, or better, both

so i suggest this fleet:
- Omega Destroyer (4 Auroras)
- Omega Destroyer (4 Auroras)
- Omega Destroyer (4 Auroras)
- Avenger Carrier (8 Auroras)
- Avenger Carrier (8 Auroras)
- Assault Hyperion
- Assault Hyperion
- Assault Hyperion
- Assault Hyperion

use the Auroras in interceptor role for the omegas (you'll have 7 on table, means every omega gets 2 and one omega gets 1 extra in round 1).

Then boresight his ships to death, every boresight from the omegas should result in one sure kill.

Let the Assault Hyperions run staight ahead at full speed, so he has somethign to do (and so draw fire from the Omegas).

Try not to get into dogfights too often, let your Anti-Fighter traits whittle them down.

 

[Omnipotent]

not a bad fleet...But where is the ini sinks...and the missiles are NOT the main weaponry of the dilgar :roll: the boltars are.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

The Avengers and Hyperion Assaults all scream ini sink to me...

 

[Burger]

every boresight from the omegas should result in one sure kill.

With the new beam rules you'll get 2 massive explosions and 2 Dilgar ships thinking "why is that Omega shining a laser pointer at us?"

6AD of beam does on average about 13 damage... but with a massive deviation.

 

[Omnipotent]

every boresight from the omegas should result in one sure kill.

With the new beam rules you'll get 2 massive explosions and 2 Dilgar ships thinking "why is that Omega shining a laser pointer at us?"

6AD of beam does on average about 13 damage... but with a massive deviation.

the beam is a good weapon no doubt. But as a battle level it is not as powerful as other ships, sure it has a good hull and hit points but when it is lumbering and turns a single 45` u can just slide alongside at range ~12 and shoot much more at it while it only has it´s mini-beams.

in a map of total emptiness it might be harder to avoid those beams but give a fleet with average movement of 11 two turns and u have out maneuvered the main gun of a battle level ship...that is not good...the EA player might get one of those 3 battle level ships to boresight something.

 

[Burger]

the beam is a good weapon no doubt. But as a battle level it is not as powerful as other ships, sure it has a good hull and hit points but when it is lumbering and turns a single 45` u can just slide alongside at range ~12 and shoot much more at it while it only has it´s mini-beams.

Yeah, watch out for the rear boresight though

 

[Omnipotent]

Yeah, watch out for the rear boresight though

hah, yep I totally HATE IT

I just seem to forget it every now and then :?:

 

[Tzarevitch]

Im starting to think EA 3rd age is the weakest faction in the entire game. I often find my fleet obliterated round 2 or 3 and I have only scratched my enemy. ( yes I know Im not the best player)

There just isnt really any dmg outside those beams. Nova is just a joke really and the beams arent good enough to win the game. I mean Im lucky if Im able to beam away even anything as big as a skirmish ship with my beams concentrated while its common I lose as much as 2 ini sinks/round.

Interceptors are also a joke. They maybe help against 1-3 hits and thats it.

Hyperion is a useless one beam wonder really and seldom does more than 4 dmg/round

Omega the big beast! doesnt kill S***! my beams do around 6 dmg/round on average. that doesnt even kill a patrol ship...

Yea i have t-bolts... sadly most of them are always stuck in dogfight with enemy fighters. The rest do 1-2 dmg

The entire fleet just seems to work so that 40% of the points is the fleet and rest is just useles ini sinks that serve no other purpose at all. And by the time my ini sinks are dead i havent really destroyed much anything.

How are you supposed to win with EA? what did I miss. Ive already decided I wont even paint my EA. The fleet just isnt worth even a paintjob in my eyes.

What sort of fleet makeup are you using?

Tzarevitch

 

[Omnipotent]

Im starting to think EA 3rd age is the weakest faction in the entire game. I often find my fleet obliterated round 2 or 3 and I have only scratched my enemy. ( yes I know Im not the best player)

There just isnt really any dmg outside those beams. Nova is just a joke really and the beams arent good enough to win the game. I mean Im lucky if Im able to beam away even anything as big as a skirmish ship with my beams concentrated while its common I lose as much as 2 ini sinks/round.

Interceptors are also a joke. They maybe help against 1-3 hits and thats it.

Hyperion is a useless one beam wonder really and seldom does more than 4 dmg/round

Omega the big beast! doesnt kill S***! my beams do around 6 dmg/round on average. that doesnt even kill a patrol ship...

Yea i have t-bolts... sadly most of them are always stuck in dogfight with enemy fighters. The rest do 1-2 dmg

The entire fleet just seems to work so that 40% of the points is the fleet and rest is just useles ini sinks that serve no other purpose at all. And by the time my ini sinks are dead i havent really destroyed much anything.

How are you supposed to win with EA? what did I miss. Ive already decided I wont even paint my EA. The fleet just isnt worth even a paintjob in my eyes.

What sort of fleet makeup are you using?

Tzarevitch

Well he has tryied quite alot of different fleets against me(dilgar/centauri).

A "standard" fleet of 5 point raid and battle could look like this:

Battle:
2x Omega
1x Nova
1x Avenger
2x Olympos
2x Artemis
4x Hermes
1x Hyperion

Raid:
1x Avenger
2x Olympos
4x Hermes
1x Nova
2x Artemis

or:

1x Omega
1x Avenger
1x Nova
4x Hermes

...not a hundred percent sure about that last raid list but I do remember meeting something atleast very similar on the battlefield. The Oracle also usually is in his lists at battle level.

 

[Davesaint]

Against Dilgar you have two real advantages - range and fighters. In a 5 FAP at Battle PL game, you can take a fleet like:

1 x Warlock
1 x Omega
1 x Avenger
1 x Explorer
3 x Olympus
2 x Hermes

or drop the Warlock Destroyer for another Omega Destroyers, three more Olympus Corvettes and 2 more Hermes Frigates (this is probably a better fleet but is a bit overkill on the number of initiative sinks).

With this fleet you can throw out 24 fighters (about 50-50 Aurora Starfurys:Thunderbolt Starfurys) that should easily be enough to overwhelm his line and discourage him from getting too close. To complement this you throw large numbers of beam dice and missiles out at over 20" (outranging his fleet), keeping the Explorer back to do your scouting for the missiles. By the time the Dilgar reach you, they should be 20% depleted and you should be aiming to kill the Jashakars first, Tikrits second and Targraths third. This firstly reduces initiative sinks but also takes out the ships with the highest damage:toughness ratio.

When the enemy gets close, your Warlock and Omega can still hang back (in a split formation, making a cross) and the rest of your fleet can manoeuvre round the edges of the combat (you really don't want to get drawn into the centre - this is your killing ground), maintaining aspect to keep the shots coming.

With any luck this should work quite well vs a manouevrable/fast Dilgar fleet (a heavy/assault Dilgar fleet plays quite differently). EA Third Age really do kick ass but they aren't a simple fleet to use well and their strengths are not that easy to maximise.

BTW, thanks David for the complement We need another match soon...

LOL

Outrange a Dilgar fleet?

U do notice they have 24 ince missiles on practically every lvl, and fighters on raid=>

It is really hard for a EA player to try not getting hurt when u muster four Targraths(that is 8*4 missiles) an Ochlavitas(4 more missiles), few torpedo jashakars(4 more). If u want u can even get the Mankhat to add another 20 missiles with TD 28 range. This still leaves u a half battle point which u of course fill with a Garasoch. If u want u can change the jashakars to scouts and paint targets with.

Now that is 60 dices of missiles; 40 AD, DD, MOD and 20 AD, TD, MOD.

EA can counter with what? 2*6 AD, DD beams(if u go with two omegas). 3*2 missiles from the olympos. Two Hermes gives u 4, 20 inc missiles more.

Now that would give the EA player, 12 beam dices, 10 missile dices...wohoo :?

Two omegas, 5 olympos, and 4 hermes would give 12 AD beam, 18 missiles...And that is not even close to the LONG range firepower of the Dilgar missiles.

Not in a million years can I see EA third age win Dilgar in long range shooting. This proves another point, u do not want to get close with the Dilgar...lol u do not need too

If the EA comes close, then the Dilgar got more boltars then missiles with a minimum range of 10...the Tikrit and Mankhat are beasts that can kill ships in there own lvl by themselves.

I could imagine that Centauri would have problems against those fleet suggestions, but I then again if there are as much as one planet on a decent place on the map EA is in trouble with centauri up there arse in turn two.

I don't think you get MOD on your torps. I am pretty sure you only get them on your Bolters and Pulsars. That aside, I was very disappointed that the range on the Dilgars torps was increased to 24. That and the enormous increase in fighters that can be fielded. Too many holes were patched in the Dilgar fleet for 2nd edition.


Dave

 

[CratZ]

well i have tried a lot of different fleet compositions but nothing seems to work.

what kind of fleet would you use at 5pt raid then?

And i guess we are not playing the same game at all since my beams dont reach those dmg numbers even in my wildest dreams

 

[Triggy]

well i have tried a lot of different fleet compositions but nothing seems to work.

what kind of fleet would you use at 5pt raid then?

And i guess we are not playing the same game at all since my beams dont reach those dmg numbers even in my wildest dreams

Average is 1 hit per Beam AD. However, this is highly variable on any individual roll.

The fleet I've taken in the past and is good against most fleets (came second in a tourney and never even played the winning Gaim fleet) is:

1 x Omega (3 Thunderbolt; 1 Aurora)
1 x Nova (3 Thunderbolt; 1 Aurora)
1 x Avenger (4 Thunderbolt; 4 Aurora)
1 x Olympus (Flash Missiles)
2 x Hermes (1 Aurora)

 

[B5freak]

I play 3rd age and Crusade and can understand some of the frustration. The problem is that, aside from Missiles, Heavy Lasers, and the occational Railgun, 3rd age just doesn't pack much punch compared to some fleets. Total dice are pretty nice, but fleets that can throw DD AD without any boresight restrictions (Centauri) or relying on beams, do see to have a distinct advantage.

What I find odd about the whole EA fleet list is that the Early list actually appears stronger than either of the "later" lists.

 

[Tolwyn]

I play 3rd age and Crusade and can understand some of the frustration. The problem is that, aside from Missiles, Heavy Lasers, and the occational Railgun, 3rd age just doesn't pack much punch compared to some fleets. Total dice are pretty nice, but fleets that can throw DD AD without any boresight restrictions (Centauri) or relying on beams, do see to have a distinct advantage.

What I find odd about the whole EA fleet list is that the Early list actually appears stronger than either of the "later" lists.

Agree on all points

 

[Lord David the Denied]

What I find odd about the whole EA fleet list is that the Early list actually appears stronger than either of the "later" lists.

That's because they have AP and DD (not usually together as far as I recall) plasma cannons, which are replaced by single damage and usually TL pulse cannons... with more dice and better range.

Your early Nova has half the dice of the 3rd age Nova, and shorter range, yet everyone thinks it's better. It isn't, it's just that individual hits are more powerful. You can't get as many hits though, so it's a trade-off.