E-mines how to you have yours?

[Target]

Ionic Bursts severely messup anyone even attempting to do special actions and not to mention if a narn ship is swamped with fighters I have seen one person emine almost point blank on his ship just to clear fighters. It may seem kinda beardy but its the kind of tactics a narn would do.

I think the rule is you can't purposely hit your own capital ships but fighters alright for some reason.

 

[Burger]

You can put an e-mine anywhere you like, as long as its in arc and in range. So its perfectly fine to drop it on top of your own ship to clear the fighters off.

Ship-breakers excluded, of course.

 

[pwrserge]

I think this would fall under the "you can't target your own ships" clause. I think that you can't say it any clearer that it is already written. If a captain won't put a beam into a floating wreck in the middle of the enemy fleet just because there might be a couple of survivors aboard it, there is no way he would catch an operational friendly ship in a blast.

Note, this does not make it impossible to clear fighters of your ships with e-mines. (I've done it in a recent test game against shadows.) It just makes e-mine placement more of a cerebral process. E-mines are quite possibly the most effective anti-fighter weapon in the game. There is no need to cheese it out to make it still better.

SERGE

 

[Target]

I seem to remember a ruling a long time ago that you couldn't hit your own ships but the fighters were ok which i found very strange way to do it. Think it was made by Mr Sprange but then it was a long time ago & i could be plain wrong. Think it also had something to do with people trying to explode drifting ships that had a fighter near it.

 

[prelude_to_war]

Thing is with E-mines, you could technically target a point in space and not necessarily a ship. Therefore if a Narn player happens to hit his own ships/fighters in the process, by the letter of the law I believe it's legal. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[lastbesthope]

You're right. I quote Matthew's most famous of mantras "Play the rules as written"

LBH

 

[Target]

Bring in Denny Crane :lol:
The word is "target", you are able target an area that you know full well will hit your own ships so that would constitute firing on your own ships on purpose not accidently in any way, shape or form.

"Target ermm I mean Denny Crane" :lol:

 

[lastbesthope]

But targeting E-mines at apoint in space where your own ships would be affected isn't much different from targeting any enemy ship within 4" of one of your own, you could conceivably damage your own ship (if the enemy explodes) but it's worth the risk.

LBH

 

[Target]

But targeting E-mines at apoint in space where your own ships would be affected isn't much different from targeting any enemy ship within 4" of one of your own, you could conceivably damage your own ship (if the enemy explodes) but it's worth the risk.

LBH

Completely different, a e-mine you know exactly how big your blast radius is & that you will hit them. It's friendly fire, when a enemy ship blows up its enemy fire as they are quite possibly wanting to damage you with the explosion anyway.

 

[lastbesthope]

You know they're in the area of effect, but you don't know whether any successful hits will be made. Same as if I unleash a 6 ship squadron of White Stars on a Sagi with one hull point left sitting 2" off the bow of an allied Explorer vessle in my fleet.

Again, no guarantee it's going to be affected, but no guarantee not.

ANd I never said they were the same, Isaid they weren't much different, and they're not. Chance is there to blow your own ships up, a lesser chance mayhap, but a chance nonetheless.

In war, things happen.

EDIT : HAving said all that, if you want to house rule in your games that E-mines can't be fired if there is any risk to your own ships then do that, but it's not the way I play.

LBH

 

[prelude_to_war]

The word is "target", you are able target an area that you know full well will hit your own ships so that would constitute firing on your own ships on purpose not accidently in any way, shape or form.

The act of targeting should not be confused with traits of a weapon; Energy Mine is a trait despite the effects it may have on its surroundings. Therefore, targeting an area of space and hitting friendlies is legal.

 

[Target]

Thats like saying im targeting that point of space with my Heavy Laser Cannon, shame your ship is there.

 

[prelude_to_war]

But that's how the e-mine rule is written! :roll:

 

[Target]

If e-mines scattered i could accept hitting your own ships but saying you aren't targeting ships under the template is little much. Do you move the template round so you can get the maxium effect. Thats seems like targeting to me. The rule simply needs re-written in my opinion because it's still friendly fire. If a opponent is good enough to put himself in a position that you can't hit him without hitting your own ships. Kudos to him thats pretty good tactics after all it's a artillery weapon. If you don't want to risk not being able to fire e-mines you should of taken ship breakers. The situation doesn't happen very often, it's just people want to hit the most they can.
As for clearing fighters out, there is no real need to be so harsh of fighters anymore. Being surrounded by fighters is just not that scary anymore usless Nials or T-Bolts, (ancients) the rest either don't have enough firepower to worry most ships or have crap enough dodge to take out before they get there.

 

[Davesaint]

If e-mines scattered i could accept hitting your own ships but saying you aren't targeting ships under the template is little much. Do you move the template round so you can get the maxium effect. Thats seems like targeting to me. The rule simply needs re-written in my opinion because it's still friendly fire. If a opponent is good enough to put himself in a position that you can't hit him without hitting your own ships. Kudos to him thats pretty good tactics after all it's a artillery weapon. If you don't want to risk not being able to fire e-mines you should of taken ship breakers. The situation doesn't happen very often, it's just people want to hit the most they can.
As for clearing fighters out, there is no real need to be so harsh of fighters anymore. Being surrounded by fighters is just not that scary anymore usless Nials or T-Bolts, (ancients) the rest either don't have enough firepower to worry most ships or have crap enough dodge to take out before they get there.

Target,

Sorry, but given the house rules your group uses for fighters is not even close to the rules as written, the statement that fighters aren't scary is complete rubbish. There are plenty of fighters out there that will do significant damage to ships other than the T-Bolt, Nial, or Ancients. Fighters like the Tzymm, Frazi, Sky Serpent, Rutarian, Pak'ma'Ra, etc.


Dave

 

[Target]

If e-mines scattered i could accept hitting your own ships but saying you aren't targeting ships under the template is little much. Do you move the template round so you can get the maxium effect. Thats seems like targeting to me. The rule simply needs re-written in my opinion because it's still friendly fire. If a opponent is good enough to put himself in a position that you can't hit him without hitting your own ships. Kudos to him thats pretty good tactics after all it's a artillery weapon. If you don't want to risk not being able to fire e-mines you should of taken ship breakers. The situation doesn't happen very often, it's just people want to hit the most they can.
As for clearing fighters out, there is no real need to be so harsh of fighters anymore. Being surrounded by fighters is just not that scary anymore usless Nials or T-Bolts, (ancients) the rest either don't have enough firepower to worry most ships or have crap enough dodge to take out before they get there.

Target,

Sorry, but given the house rules your group uses for fighters is not even close to the rules as written, the statement that fighters aren't scary is complete rubbish. There are plenty of fighters out there that will do significant damage to ships other than the T-Bolt, Nial, or Ancients. Fighters like the Tzymm, Frazi, Sky Serpent, Rutarian, Pak'ma'Ra, etc.


Dave

OK those other fighters have worse dodges as i explained just above and can be shot down with ease. Our house rules make our fighter far more powerful than current ones. So they still aren't a huge threat.
Double speed, precise on weapons d3 for crit locations. Our rules on anti fighter / e-mines being -2 dodge make fighter more effective than currently so i know fighters aren't much of threat in the straight up version, i have played that version a while before adapting to our house rules.

 

[prelude_to_war]

The rule simply needs re-written in my opinion because it's still friendly fire.

Maybe, but doesn't it seem like just the sort of desperate/blind with revenge type of thing that the Narn would do to hurt the enemy? I liken it to the 'Life is Cheap' rule for Skaven in Warhammer.

 

[Target]

Could be but i don't think the Narn quite have that mentality, waste of resources.

 

[Abraxas]

Could be but i don't think the Narn quite have that mentality, waste of resources.

Minimal damage to their capital ship.

Maximum damage to a whole shed load of fighters.

Seems like something they would do to me... :?

 

[Target]

It may not be fighters they are targeting. I guess it your ship you are damaging it may cost you in the long run. It doesn't really worry me that much it's more people saying they aren't targeting because it's landing in empty space when you know that it effects everything in 3" radius so in effect you are targeting everything in a 3" radius & thats why you targeted that particular point. Any way you can usually find a spot thats doesn't effect your ships but can effect theirs maybe not as many as you would like.
It still seems very beardy when you know you can't fire on your own ships.
Still don't see what Narn have against fighters, they have a +1 dogfighter (it's a pretty good fighter really), a lot weapons allround with a couple of exceptions, quite a few ships carry fighters. It's kinda overkill in a big way. Fighters aren't what they used to be when people would take a horde of super T-Bolts( hull 6, with precise i think) as their fleet thats when the e-mine become the the premier fighter killer because i don't think it used to be that way in the beginning.
This last part is my against killing fighters so easily rant. I don't really see the need, they only have 1 hit, low hull, don't have to roll for bulkheads against them. Most that have 2+ dodge have crap all weapons, ones with weapons are 3+ dodge & above so die pretty easily from normal fire anyway. You don't get the huge numbers you used to when buying wings like in the first rule set.