E-mines how to you have yours?

[Abraxas]

It may not be fighters they are targeting. I guess it your ship you are damaging it may cost you in the long run. It doesn't really worry me that much it's more people saying they aren't targeting because it's landing in empty space when you know that it effects everything in 3" radius so in effect you are targeting everything in a 3" radius & thats why you targeted that particular point. Any way you can usually find a spot thats doesn't effect your ships but can effect theirs maybe not as many as you would like.
It still seems very beardy when you know you can't fire on your own ships.
Still don't see what Narn have against fighters, they have a +1 dogfighter (it's a pretty good fighter really), a lot weapons allround with a couple of exceptions, quite a few ships carry fighters. It's kinda overkill in a big way. Fighters aren't what they used to be when people would take a horde of super T-Bolts( hull 6, with precise i think) as their fleet thats when the e-mine become the the premier fighter killer because i don't think it used to be that way in the beginning.
This last part is my against killing fighters so easily rant. I don't really see the need, they only have 1 hit, low hull, don't have to roll for bulkheads against them. Most that have 2+ dodge have crap all weapons, ones with weapons are 3+ dodge & above so die pretty easily from normal fire anyway. You don't get the huge numbers you used to when buying wings like in the first rule set.

If a standard Emine is useless against ships (as it has been generally agreed to be) and it is good against fighters... why NOT use them as an anti-fighter weapon?

Also, the rules clearly say "pick a point". If one of your ships is there... so be it. The legality of this tactic and it's discussion, as far as I can see, is over :?. The rules clearly imply that allied positions are irrelevent.

I DO agree with you that generally the Narns have pretty decent anti-fighter weapon ANYway, especially the G'Quan, which can throw something like 16 AD in all of it's arcs within 8"... but unless you have a special e-mine... and no targets for them (since a shot at a cap ship with an e-mine is regarded as wasteful)... then why not take out that clump of fighters that WILL be a problem in a turn or two?

 

[katadder]

in our campaign i got ambushed by narn, 40AD of emines on whitestars is not useless at all. standard e-mines are good for killing whitestars or minbari.
wait until you see the new narn e-mines though, too good IMO but they are coming.

 

[Target]

I consider the E-mine as artillery. It's ideal for softening up targets so they are easier to finish off. They are the only weapon that has an area effect. Hitting multiple targets is huge. Hit 2 targets & doubles the effectiveness of the weapon so on. It's range 30", many options like ionic, shipbreakers, wideburst & finally the ability to fire every round by halving AD & reducing range to 20". Makes it a pretty useful weapon, it's not ship killer (excluding ship breaker) but it makes a lot easier to kill ships later. The D'Kar gets killed all the time why? Because it is a threat cause of the e-mines. All in all E-mines are damn good. Even if they didn't ignore dodge they would still kill a few fighters just from the amount of dodges they have to make. Forgot ignore stealth & interceptors. Pretty impressive weapon, what more to you want?
Being able to "accidently" hit your own ships i find just little much, sorry just the way I feel.
As to the ruling i do remember that you couldn't hit your own ships but fighters were ok by Mr Sprange but that was probably before SFOS & changed with that. Tried searching for it but must been deleted it was a long time ago.

 

[prelude_to_war]

Could be but i don't think the Narn quite have that mentality, waste of resources.

Minimal damage to their capital ship.

Maximum damage to a whole shed load of fighters.

Seems like something they would do to me... :?

Remember that movie Platoon? Where the US officer orders the Napalm airstrike on his own overrun position? Same mentality.

 

[Ripple]

I agree...think about the Narn charge when B5 is being boarded...waste of resources...like they care. They also would know their ships are tough enough to handle an emine or not. Like a tank commander calling a bunch of small arms fire on his vehicle to scrape off infantry...certainly not out of the question.

As too fighters not being a threat...just can't buy that given fighter WILL get one shot at least. Kinda like saying shoulder fired rockets aren't a threat, cause you'll gank the guy who shot it right after he...oh...well...if you can still fire.

T-bolt is the nasty boy of the block for sure. For every 3 standard AD you get one hit, need four to six hits to expect a failed dodge...so 12 to 18 standard dice to destroy one flight. Sky Serpent is weaker...figure 6 AD to be sure.

Ripple

 

[pwrserge]

I think the point that most anti-self immolation people are trying to make, is that allowing this would make e-mines far too good.

Ripple. A better comparison would be that same tank commander firing a HE round at something within 5 feet of the end of his barrel so that the back blast clears the infantry off him. I guarantee you that any tank commander stupid enough to do this will be spending quite a while in Leavenworth.

SERGE

 

[Target]

I agree...think about the Narn charge when B5 is being boarded...waste of resources...like they care. They also would know their ships are tough enough to handle an emine or not. Like a tank commander calling a bunch of small arms fire on his vehicle to scrape off infantry...certainly not out of the question.

As too fighters not being a threat...just can't buy that given fighter WILL get one shot at least. Kinda like saying shoulder fired rockets aren't a threat, cause you'll gank the guy who shot it right after he...oh...well...if you can still fire.

T-bolt is the nasty boy of the block for sure. For every 3 standard AD you get one hit, need four to six hits to expect a failed dodge...so 12 to 18 standard dice to destroy one flight. Sky Serpent is weaker...figure 6 AD to be sure.

Ripple

Kinda the reason why i started the Thunderbolt post, damn hard to kill, little too much firepower for a 2+ dodge.
I just feel that if your opponent is good enough to get his ships/fighters close enough to yours that you can't fire on them without hitting yours they have out thought you. It's not like you haven't had plenty chances to hit them earlier in the battle.

 

[Ripple]

I'd agree on the E-mine = HE thing if it could crit you, but most it can do is chip the paint....might not be a tactic taught at officer's training but if it worked you might never know after that.

As to the 'out thought' you argument, well...that could be used to call for lots of rules changes. Stealth shouldn't effect any ship that gets within 2" say, perfectly reasonable...that's base to base...I mean if you didn't prevent someone from getting there. It is equivalent of saying I would do it differently, applies to a lot of things. God knows I would do fighters differently (D3 on the second roll for crits say, or dogfights are resolved last, after all other combat to prevent the kill the victorious fighter syndrome) but its not a reason why some thing needs to be changed.

Ripple

 

[Target]

Just don't like the way there is no hiding from a e-mine unless the angle is right with a planet. I also thought the criting thing could of been solved by a 6 is a extra pt of dam since 1 is still a bulk head.
The being out thought thing is bit different from your stealth example but you also could prevent it by not moving your ship in the 3" range of ships you want to target ( i know they could move in after that particular ship has moved, bit like the rebel fleet moving in close range with the imperial fleet so they couldn't be targeted by the death star ).
You can also usually hit ships without hitting your own just it means you won't be able to hit as many.

 

[Hash]

A most useful aspect of e-mines is, like missiles for EA, they're are weapon variants that can be used in battle. I know Reaverman for one likes to use Ionic bursts with his G'Quan's, not for the damage potential, but as an effective way of stripping special orders (and the ability to perform such the next turn) from enemy ships...very, very effective against some fleets / players whose tactics rely on those orders.