E-mines - Do you like'em as is?

[Hash]

Inspired by another thread - thought it would be interesting to discuss e-mines.

Like EA missiles, there are variants that SFoS introduced that allows Narn players some versatility in their use and I know Narn players in my group take great delight in using things like ionic mines to deny Special Actions to their opponents...they can also become ok main weapons too if they use the Ship Breaker variant.

1. Question is do you like how e-mines are? Do want more (less) variants - maybe an S&P article?

2. Given that 2nd edition is around the corner or 6 - 9 months away roughly I don't see how we can avoid talking about that either - what would you hope to see Mongoose do to e-mines in ACTAV2?

Personally I think they should have a much smaller area of effect (say 1.5 inch radius, and up their lethality a little (maybe with attack dice or even letting 'em crit again). This I think would reduce their effectiveness against fighter swarms (less area) - and make it more useful to target ships (let 'em crit)...however this would utterly unbalance against Minbari and ISA (who rely on Stealth and Dodge respectively) so would have to be very careful here...

 

[Silvereye]

I think they were going to discuss the 2e e-mine changes in the next S&P with some other stuff.

 

[Hash]

I think they were going to discuss the 2e e-mine changes in the next S&P with some other stuff.

Really? Cool - what then are people hoping to see in the article?

 

[Silvereye]

I would like to see the standard mine improved somewhat, but this is very difficult to do as it is one of those things that affects so many other aspects of the game. Currently with the e-mine variants available there seems to be no real benefit to taking standard mines (especially with the short charge option available).

Pre-revised, e-mines could crit and they could split AD. The best change they could have made at the time would have been just the no splitting AD instead of adding on the -1 on the damage table rules.

With Arm, they brought in the 6=5 (no crits) on the damage table rather than the straight -1 which improved things somewhat.

I'd like the standard mines to be a bit more toothy. Perhaps countered by adding a potential for deviation into the mix (much like Jump Points do); e.g Place template where you want the mine to hit and roll a D6. 1-4) the mine lands on target. 5) the mine deviates D6 inches. 6) The mine deviates 2D6 inches. Or by removing some of the variants.

I am currently looking forward to seeing what has bene made of them.

 

[H]

hmm, the Ionic mine is a superb piece of kit, but the shipbuster suffers from a very short range, and becomes interceptable, making it vastly inferior to EA missiles, the standard mine is a no choice, short charging the others can get your fighter kills. I don't want mines to be overpowering, but I do want them to be on a par with the EA missiles.
How can this be done, well, I suggested a few improvements in the previous table.
let them crit, but on a 1D4? or a D6-1, something to slightly downgrade their damage on a crit. Reduce the area of effect to 2", or even 1.5" as already mentioned (while allowing full crits), carry limited ammo, E-Mines can crit fully, over their intended arc, but you only get a couple of shots off before you can't fire anymore. Remove slow loading on STANDARD mines, meaning death of a thousand cuts to opponents perhaps.

 

[Locutus9956]

Just as a minor aside, to the best of my knowledge emines could NEVER split their AD.

 

[Silvereye]

Just as a minor aside, to the best of my knowledge emines could NEVER split their AD.

There was never anything mentioned in the very first ACTA box set that said you couldn't....

 

[Johnny D]

Personally I like e-mines as they are.
Ship breakers dispite their range are great when you can use them and on Battle plus ships you always have enough secondary weapons to knock down a lot of the interceptors first. Being able to launch 12 dice of SAP double damage in the front arc of my G-Quann is excellent, and fits with the style of the ship which is at it's best up close and personal, if it means having to all power to engines to get them in range the effect is worth it.
They're less good on a Dag-Kar, but I think the reall issue around the Dag-Kar is it's hull not it's weapons and I've still managed to get some good use out of them.
The ability to short fuse makes them well rounded and versatile. Plus Without a single anti fighter weapon in my fleet otherwise I'd be pretty nervous about losing them as while they are a very, very effective anti-fighter weapon, they are the only one that the Narn's have and fit nicely with the feel of the fleet. As they currently aren't too overpowering and give the Narn something of a unique aspect I'm against significant changes.
That said they do seem to work in a diferent way in the show so I suppose there is scope for change to make them more of a direct anti ship weapon than they are currently, but I'm in no rush.

 

[Locutus9956]

Well Ill have to double check when I get home but Im fairly sure it said as such in the emine trait. If not then it was answered in an FAQ or something Im sure.

Anyway, I personally would like to see emines do a bit more damage to ships but not be the crit fishing machines they were in the original release (they were a bit TOO good then). One change Id like is that in addtion to not scoring crits, they DONT SCORE BULKHEADS EITHER. Its a huge blast, if its not precie enough to hit specific ship systems then doesnt it logically follow that they shouldnt just hit a specific bulkhead and not damage the area around it?

 

[Calistan]

I think standard energy mines should be SAP, Anti-Fighter, and it should have immunity to interceptors, but no area effect, and if it crits, then it gets a -2 on all crit table rolls(for the type of crit and the effect).

 

[leonpaul]

But stealth doesn't work against E-mines.
I cant really say much but E-mines are now very good,lets just say gone are the days of hiding your fighters in launch bays.
Because of the way it is at the moment in 2E you have to be tactical with them now.
If i am upseting the playtesters or mongoose let me know and i will stop,but not really giving away much.

 

[katadder]

fighter hiding days are not gone at all.

 

[Locutus9956]

Well from what I know of 2nd Ed I would hardly say 'fighter hiding days are gone' Merely that emines might be better used to blow ships to bits instead..... :twisted:

 

[katadder]

and its only more tactical with about 2 ships i can think of.

 

[Valen is my name]

partly to do with emines, can you MAKE a fighter crash into a bigger ship? besause skin dancers can accidently ram them but can you make them do it, as a sort of last ditch attack?

 

[Da Boss]

lets just say gone are the days of hiding your fighters in launch bays.

Beacuse the missile sneaks into the launch bay when they are not looking?

or it loiters outside waiting for them to emerge - shouts "gotcha" and detonates?