Dynamic Initiative

[IanBruntlett]

Hi,

I've just finished trawling through the Combat chapter of the core rules, making notes...

OK, I've got my head around damage (no hit points!) and combat being a skill check.

However, Dynamic Initiative is something else. I don't follow it.

OK, in the first round, you roll a skill check of 2D6+Dexterity DM and that is your initiative score.

What happens in the second round? I know that initiative is dynamic and that some actions can add or subtract to it but... which actions affect initiative? and by how much? and which part of the rule book is this mentioned in?

Ideally I'd like someone to reply with an example of a multi-round combat.

Thanks in advance,


Ian

 

[Duroon]

The way I read it is that each round your initiative resets to whatever you had rolled for that first round. So even if you have enough reactions during a round to lower your initiative to 0 from 8 (-2 to your init every reaction taken). The following round your init would be back at 8.

Your initiative is effected by either making a reaction (-2 to your init) or hastening (+2 to your initiative but a -1DM to your skill checks during the round). If you have already acted during a round and then take a reaction the -2 is applied on the next round to your init. All of this is on page 60 in the section entitled The Combat Round.

P.S. I am adding a house rule that if your init reaches 0 due to reactions taken then you lose your significant action for the round, you will still get your minor action when your turn finally comes though.

 

[Emryys]

Reactions (Parry, Dodge), Recoil/Heft and Hasten affect Intiative...

Reactions: -2 Init, -1 skill checks, pg, 61 - 62

Recoil/Heft: STR DM Vs. Recoil/Heft rating, pg 61

Hasten: +2 to Init, -1 to actions, pg.60

The DM's are cummulative and affect you next action, either this round or the next.

There may be more, but that's a summary...

 

[IanBruntlett]

The way I read it is that each round your initiative resets to whatever you had rolled for that first round. So even if you have enough reactions during a round to lower your initiative to 0 from 8 (-2 to your init every reaction taken). The following round your init would be back at 8.

OK, just getting my head around this... initiative - the higher your initiative score, the quicker you are :shock: That's OK,. However, clinging to by AD&D 2e roots, I can't see why initiative shouldn't be rolled once per round. It's OK, I'll get over it

I'm finding the index in the core rules to be invaluable. I think a glossary would have been a good idea as well.

 

[T.L.]

The recoil rule is very good imo, and the malus / reaction is a great alternative to a fixed number of action a character can perform each round.

 

[Infojunky]

The recoil rule is very good imo, and the malus / reaction is a great alternative to a fixed number of action a character can perform each round.

I keep looking at the rules in the book as well as the play test doc, Snapshot, AHL, and ADQ. there is a workable initiative/action point system in there. Just haven't figured out how quite to administrate it yet.

Am thinking something like an excel spread sheet.

 

[T.L.]

I think I'll use a dice to display the malus and increment reactions: 1st reaction, the player puts a dice next to his character sheet and displays "1". 2nd reaction, he turns the dice to display "2", and so on. A d6 might be enough — more than 6 reactions looks like Matrix to me. If not, a d10 ou a d12 will do it.

 

[Xoph]

It sounds like someone is confused... could be me.

This is how I read the initiative rules:

Leaders roll tactics(military): Effect is added to that teams initiative.
Each player rolls initiative: 1D6 + dexterity bonus
Every reaction lowers your initiative.
So if 4 PC are fighting 4 NPCs it would look like this:
Tactics roll of 10
PC1: 8 +2 = 10
PC2: 6 +2 = 8
PC3: 10 +2 = 12
PC4: 13+2=15
Tactics roll of 7
NPC1: 11 +(-1) = 10
NPC2: 8 +(-1) = 7
NPC3: 4 +(-1) = 3
NPC4: 7+(-1) =6
Initiative Order
1. PC4@15
2. PC3 @12
3. NPC1 @10 (has higher dex)
4. PC1@10
5. PC2@8
6. NPC2@ 7
7. NPC4@6
8. NPC3@ 3
If during the battle the NPCs attack PC4 three times and PC3 twice and they both attempt to dodge the attacks and NPC4 delays past the end of the turn due to not wanting to fire into melee then the next round will look like this:
1. NPC4@6+12 =18 for delay
2. NPC1 @10 (has higher dex)
3. PC1@10
4. PC4@9
5. PC2@8 (higher dex0
6. PC3 @8
7. NPC2@ 7
8. NPC3@ 3

And will stay like this for the rest of the battle unless someone does something to change it such as react or delay.

I don’t have the book on me so I may be off on a detail or so.

 

[Duroon]

And will stay like this for the rest of the battle unless someone does something to change it such as react or delay.

I don’t have the book on me so I may be off on a detail or so.

Your missing the part of Dynamic Initiative that says "Any changes affect your initiative for one round only." After the round in which your intiative has been affected it gets reset to the roll you started with.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Each player rolls initiative: 1D6 + dexterity bonus

I want to point out that it is 2D6. I know the poster just made a typo.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Since we are on the topic of initiative...

What are your thoughts on Leadership AND tactics skill. Would it be cumulative? Is the leadership check done just once or each round? Do you have to make a leadership / tactics check or can you decide not to? How are negative effect results handled? (at level 0 it's more likely you will get a negative result than a positive one) Partial quote from the book on page 64

The Tactics skill can be used to give an Initiative bonus at the start of combat.... The Leadership skill can be used to increase another character's initiative.... Making a Leadership skill check is a significant action.

In my opinion, you don't have to make a skill check but there is no reason not to since only bonuses that increase initiative would apply and not penalties that decrease initiative.

Some issues I have with the initiative system:

The random die roll is more important than the characters dexterity or abilities. Imagine two gunfighters in a duel. First their gunfighting skills have no effect at all on how quickly they can draw their weapon (one could have no skill at all while the other is a seasoned pro). Next one gunfighter is a little quick with a Dex of 11 and the other is a little slow with a Dex of 3. This 8 point difference in dexterity gives a +1 to one gunfighter and a -1 to the other for a total difference of 2. The random roll however has a range from 2 to 12. So luck plays a bigger roll than skill or characteristics.

In a long fight lasting many rounds if you have a poor initiative roll (or a good one) you use it for the whole fight. This is true for the Tactics check too.

If some of the combatants are ready for combat and some are not, such as an ambush, the prepaired characters are considered to get an automatic 12 on their roll

Does anyone think that there should not be a little errata regarding initiative when the current system allows the attackers to have a huge initiative advantage after a surprise attack and it lasts FOR THE ENTIRE COMBAT? Please give details including book quotes to back up your position. I'm open minded, maybe I am interpreting something wrong or missed something.

In my opinion, the whole initiative system with extra dice rolls and record keeping of all the actions that effect it could possibly be thrown out the window and just let the combat occur simultaneously. If someone is ambushing do a roll to determine if they are successful based maybe on the attackees recon roll vs the attackers stealth? If the surprise is successful, give the attacker one free combat round.

Maybe I should have more actual game experience with these rules before making such judgments. Maybee I sshhould be not drinkin whens I be makin theesh judgmentalisms. Maybe your posts will help me see things differently. Maybe your posts will reinforce my opinions (nah, nobody ever posts when they agree).