Drazi Firerapator - can't we make a better ship

[Da Boss]

Its is very very poor at present even with the tiny P+P "improvement" - compared to other sub par war level ships its bad.

my initial version (disclosure non Drazi player) of a proper war ship more comparable with the Warlock but still Drazi stylee

Speed 12, Damage 75 / 15, Crew 85 / 20,
Craft: 2 Sky Serpent flights, 4 Star Snake Flights
Turn 2 x 45
Hull 6
Troops 10
Special: Antifighter 4, Carrier 2, Command +2, Jump Engine,
Weapons
Advanced Missile Rack...........Range 30.....F..6AD...Prcise, SL(*), Super AP
Superior Solar Cannon............Range 20"...B(f)....6 AD.... Beam, Triple Damage,
Heavy Particle Cannon............Range 15.....B (f)...6AD......Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Particle Repeater Battery.....Range 15, F, 12 AD, AP, Double Damage, TL
Particle Repeater.............Range 8, F arc....10AD....Twin Linked

* These weapons ignore the Slow loading trait unless the Fire Raptor is crippled

 

[skavendan]

Feeling inspired are we charles?

 

[Da Boss]

nah just feel that the Drazi are a bit left out - I agree the Shadow Omega needs work (you have seen my version :wink: ) but the Fire raptor needs much more

 

[skavendan]

Abit left out lol there are about 4 people who shown an interest in the Psi Corp lol.

Am sure she will get more attention the Corp will.

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

nah just feel that the Drazi are a bit left out - I agree the Shadow Omega needs work (you have seen my version :wink: ) but the Fire raptor needs much more

I sense... a conversion idea is forming in Da Boss' head (-*-)

I agree that the current model simply sucks...

 

[katadder]

that looks similar to my drazi phoenix

Fireraptor-class Battleship War
The Fireraptor is a far more typical use of the influx of technology from the ISA that the governments of the former League have planned. However, while it sports the latest artificial gravity and enhanced systems the ISA has been able to provide, it is painfully clear to any fleet analyst that the Drazi have not learned a damned thing. The Drazi have simply developed a larger and more powerful version of their existing craft, concentrating on speed and agility with weapons focussed forwards.

Speed: 8 Damage: 75/20 Craft: 1 Sky Serpent Flight, 4 Star Snake Flights
Turns: 2/45 Crew: 88/24 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 2, Carrier 2,
Command +1, Jump Engine
Hull: 6 Troops: 6 In Service: 2269+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Solar Cannon 18 B 6 Beam, Triple Damage, Slow Loading
Heavy Particle Cannon 15 B 6 Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Particle Blaster 8 F 8 Double Damage
Particle Repeater 12 F 14 Twin-Linked
Missile Rack 30 F 6 Precise, Slow-Loading, Super AP

Phoenix advanced Battleship War
The Phoenix still follows along with the idea of Drazi warfare with everything pointing forwards, however it has a bit more technology on it to make it the most advanced ship to come out of the Drazi shipyards to date.

Speed: 10 Damage: 80/20 Craft: 2 Star Snake Flights
Turns: 2/45 Crew: 85/20 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 4, Command +1,
Flight Computer, Jump Engine
Hull: 6 Troops: 6 In Service: 2289

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Advanced Solar Cannon 24 B 6 Beam, Triple Damage
Heavy Particle Blaster 8 F 10 Double Damage
Heavy Particle Repeater 15 F 14 Double Damage, Twin-Linked
Advanced Missile Rack 30 F 6 Precise, Slow-Loading*, Super AP
* These weapons ignore the Slow-Loading trait unless the Phoenix is crippled

 

[Da Boss]

nah just feel that the Drazi are a bit left out - I agree the Shadow Omega needs work (you have seen my version :wink: ) but the Fire raptor needs much more

I sense... a conversion idea is forming in Da Boss' head (-*-)

I agree that the current model simply sucks...

For once no :wink: - I made my own Drazi war level ship the Dusk Falcon 8)

although I suppose I could play with some of my Drazi ships..................

 

[Da Boss]

Either your Pheonix or mine seems a proper war level ship

Is is a "powers that be" decision given the fluff that it be a terrible ship?

 

[Target]

We just take slow loading off Solar cannons for Drazi when we play. Makes Solar hawks the biggest targets there is.

 

[Ripple]

wow... that would be a huge upgrade...

I agree the Fireraptor needs a boost. Poor thing just doesn't have a real role to play more often than not.

To honest I would rather have a better Nightfalcon... it needs more star snakes and/or fleet carrier, especially if they nix the league. As is you can barely ever win a dogfight... from a race that supposedly loves to do just that. The Nightie just doesn't pack enough punch to be a battle ship, and it's fighter complement, while some good bombers, just die to anyone else taking their raid level carrier... and those fighters usually come back. Drop Nightie to raid if want her to be the chumpfalcon and she does just fine, trading fleet carrier for her beam... but otherwise shes not worth taking.

Ripple

 

[CZuschlag]

The Phoenix feels over. It seems better than the Warlock.

The big beam is practically identical.
The missile launcher is close to identical (no variant missiles is, indeed, noteworthy)
The 'falcon is bigger.

Which leaves us with:

Heavy Particle Blaster 8 F 10 Double Damage
Heavy Particle Repeater 15 F 14 Double Damage, Twin-Linked

vs.

Railgun 20 F 6 AP, Double Damage
Railgun 20 A 6 AP, Double Damage
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 F 6 Twin-Linked
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 P 10 Twin-Linked
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 S 10 Twin-Linked
Heavy Pulse Cannon 12 A 6 Twin-Linked

The Repeater is clearly superior to the pulse arrays, for both concentration of fire and for weight (courtesy of the DD trait). In exchange for that, you give up range on the Particle Blaster vs. the Railgun. It's a big range difference, that I grant; however, the superior number of AD almost always counteracts the lack of AP.

Maybe it's a wash.

But, the last bit is the one that doesn't ring true for me: Command +1 and Interceptors for an extra 45 and not Lumbering. Forgive me, but the extra 45 is what offended me most about the G'Vrahn. It's a huge improvement.

And, even if you do select these as equal, the Warlock is one of the top warships out there. I don't think we want to make best-of-class in adjustments (that smacks of newest-Codex-wins W2K), but a balanced ship.

And what is it going to be like in a campaign with Attack Run? You know in a campaign your local Drazi will perform its one free CQ-level swap to get a CQ 6 in this ship for Attack Runs succeeding 83% of the time. Yeek.

Another issue I have with it is the forced nature of the weapons loadout. The Mankhat suffers from this too. Why is it that the best bomardment weapon inthe Dilgar fleet never found its way onto a bomardment-level platform (like a Rohric outfitted with Advanced Anti-ship missiles at Raid)? Why only now for the Advanced Solar Cannon?

Sure there need to be improvements to the Fireraptor, but this feels overcooked slightly.

 

[Ripple]

Not that I think Phhoenix is wonderful but are you sure we're looking at the same ship?

Warlock is two slower at speed eight... for a bore sighted ship this is actually a benefit most of the time. It is 1/45 and Lumbering... but given it's range advantages I don't see that as very restrictive. The Phoenix does have two 45's and no Lumbering... but it needs it more given no side/rear guns.

Phoenix is all of 5 damage bigger... and its threshold is 5 higher... so it cripples at the same time and skeletons 2 earlier... I think this is a wash.

Hull and troops are the same, but the Warlock gets 4 flights of T-bolts to the Phoenix's two flights of Star Snakes... huge advantage for the Warlock.

Warlock has more AF, more Command, Interceptors... again a huge advantage to the Warlock (not sure why the Drazi have flight computer other than they seem to be handing them out like candy since trait loss was introduced.)

Weapons fit...

Warlock beam is far superior to the Phoenix... an extra 11 inches of range is no small thing.

While the Phoenix does have a mild advantage in the F arc if it hits a sweet spot range wise, the Warlock out ranges it with both comparable guns.

Missile racks are identical, and that makes sense for the late arriving ship. If the Drazi made another bombardment ship... say a raid one, it would have the same racks... upgrading from the darkhawk.

You skipped over the huge advantages in side and rear weapons, these are a big deal.

I don't see how you can claim the the Phoenix is even close to the Warlock in power... the Warlock wins the fight at every step short of range eight front. Given the interceptors and fighter superiority, even that fight could easily go the Warlocks way.

Ripple

 

[David Anla Shok']

Its is very very poor at present even with the tiny P+P "improvement" - compared to other sub par war level ships its bad.

my initial version (disclosure non Drazi player) of a proper war ship more comparable with the Warlock but still Drazi stylee

Speed 12, Damage 75 / 15, Crew 85 / 20,
Craft: 2 Sky Serpent flights, 4 Star Snake Flights
Turn 2 x 45
Hull 6
Troops 10
Special: Antifighter 4, Carrier 2, Command +2, Jump Engine,
Weapons
Advanced Missile Rack...........Range 30.....F..6AD...Prcise, SL(*), Super AP
Superior Solar Cannon............Range 20"...B(f)....6 AD.... Beam, Triple Damage,
Heavy Particle Cannon............Range 15.....B (f)...6AD......Beam, Double Damage
Heavy Particle Repeater Battery.....Range 15, F, 12 AD, AP, Double Damage, TL
Particle Repeater.............Range 8, F arc....10AD....Twin Linked

* These weapons ignore the Slow loading trait unless the Fire Raptor is crippled

I like it.

 

[skavendan]

Seems abit heavy on the fire power for a carrier I would say choose fighter or carrier

 

[Ripple]

Drazi is traditionally a mixed approach race when it comes to carrier tactics. In the case of this ship I think it's representing twin catapults. Look at the other carriers for the Drazi...

Strikehawk (shouldn't this be strikebird given the hull its on?) - almost as heavily armed as it's pure attack vessel stablemate.

Nightfalcon (loses it's biggest beam in exchange for twice the flights) still very respectable attack firepower. The repeater is shorter ranged, but has more dice... eh... always thought that should have been the same as Stormie.

Stormie - mixed heavy guns and three flights.

Raptor - slightly more fighters and slight firepower upgrade... with enough carrier to keep the launch rate the same. It's not a 'carrier' its a fighting ship that can drop its fighters quickly, specifically it can launch all its Sky Serpents in one shot without pausing in it's attack run to Scramble Scramble. I like that it can also drop all it's Star Snakes in a go. Just think of the Sky Serpents as an extra pair of missile tubes... they usually don't last a lot longer than one shot.

If we were doing a proper War level carrier for the Drazi I would expect to be able to launch at least a Raid point of fighters... say a full two wings of Sky Serpents and a wing of Star Snakes (6 and 6)... or 3 Sky Serpents and 12 Star Snakes with guns similar to the Nightfalcon...

Ripple

 

[skavendan]

Speed 10, (lowered from your version)
Damage 75 / 18, (increased cripple value based on the original 22%)
Crew 85 / 20,
Craft: 2 Sky Serpent flights, 4 Star Snake Flights ( can't be bothered looking at fighters to comment right now)
Turn 2 x 45
Hull 6
Troops 10
Special: Antifighter 4, Carrier 3, Command +1, Jump Engine,

Weapons
Advanced Missile Rack...........Range 30"....F..6AD...Prcise, SL, Super AP
Superior Solar Cannon...........Range 20"...B....6 AD.... Beam, TD,
Heavy Particle Cannon............Range15"...B...6AD......Beam, DD, SL
Heavy Particle Repeater Battery.....Range 15, F, 12 AD, AP, DD,
Particle Repeater.............Range 8, F arc....10AD....Twin Linked

That sounds about right to me twaeked a little on what you did. Think 10" is fast enough. Made the secondary beam SL as alot of there ships have SL so it seemed reasonably in line while not stopping you firing your main gun every turn.

I would look at the fighter compliment and perhapes add a few more?

I don't know much about this race but there you go my view on the ship.

 

[Tolwyn]

As a war lavel choice it needs IMO some Port and Starboard weapons when being flanked.

 

[Da Boss]

Speed 10, (lowered from your version)
Damage 75 / 18, (increased cripple value based on the original 22%)
Crew 85 / 20,
Craft: 2 Sky Serpent flights, 4 Star Snake Flights ( can't be bothered looking at fighters to comment right now)
Turn 2 x 45
Hull 6
Troops 10
Special: Antifighter 4, Carrier 3, Command +1, Jump Engine,

Weapons
Advanced Missile Rack...........Range 30"....F..6AD...Prcise, SL, Super AP
Superior Solar Cannon...........Range 20"...B....6 AD.... Beam, TD,
Heavy Particle Cannon............Range15"...B...6AD......Beam, DD, SL
Heavy Particle Repeater Battery.....Range 15, F, 12 AD, AP, DD,
Particle Repeater.............Range 8, F arc....10AD....Twin Linked

That sounds about right to me twaeked a little on what you did. Think 10" is fast enough. Made the secondary beam SL as alot of there ships have SL so it seemed reasonably in line while not stopping you firing your main gun every turn.

I would look at the fighter compliment and perhapes add a few more?

I don't know much about this race but there you go my view on the ship.

Hmm to be honest your version is too still weak for a war level ship with NO defences (like shields, interceptors and self repair) and ONLY front weapons - compare the stats to the version of the Shadow Omega you want or the Warlock? The Storm Falcon can already fire both its beams every turn so it makes sense that the Fire Raptor can too. I can't see why remove the advanced capability of the missile rack too........the speed change is ok.........
If it is losing all the weapons etc it need defences - say 4 dice interceptors (from the ISA), i'd give it dodge 6+ but can't justify that looking at the mdoel - although if there was to be a new sleeker Drazi looking model...............
Why do you think the the Drazi ship should be so bad - the fluff talks about it being very drazi in stlye - front arc weapons only but they shoudl be very powerful..........

 

[skavendan]

Ok take slow loading off the other beam and up the carried fighters. Theres no point comparing it to the Shadow Omega lol. You can use some of those fighters in her as interceptors. No point adding interceptor value we just been through all that with the narn ,now you got it now you don't.

I never said it should be bad it actually looks ok to me. Good speed decent range of weapons, Not lumbering.

 

[skavendan]

I suppose she should come close to the G’Vrahn-class Fast Cruiser. Range is the issue. mmmmm have to look more closly at the rest of the fleet.