Do soldiers become civilians when they leave or are ejected?

[FraNe91]

Hello guys!
My question is the same as per title: do soldiers (and marines and in general any military personnel) become civilian after they leave their military career or are ejected from it?

Do they maintain they rank? Are they still called for example "Captain Johnson" from ex lower-grade comrade-in-arms? How do they have to (or should?) treat an ex higher-grade comrade? Do they still have to call him "sir" when they speak to him?

Thanks and sorry for my ignorance! :mrgreen:

 

[rust]

It depends a lot on the specific society. In many societies a high
military rank (usually Colonel and above) tends to become a kind
of "courtesy rank" that may still be used once the officer has reti-
red or otherwise returned to civilian life. Apart from that, previ-
ous soldiers are treated as civilians in most societies.

 

[phavoc]

I think there's also a link to how the military fits within the society. For example, in the UK, people of a certain social strata were expected to "do their duty for King/Queen and country". And nobles who weren't going to inherit often found the military as an alternative to gaining social rank.

In the US we've not really had that sort of societal scale, so it's not as common. In the political world you see it with ex-governors and up, whereby they often get referred to as governor even if they no longer hold office. It's a social courtesy, or more likely a social ass-kissing exercise.

You can also see it with senior NCO ranks as well. Though it depends on the individual and their circumstances more so than say with senior officers, at least that's how I see it.

 

[dmccoy1693]

As a friend of mine always says, "Once a marine. Always a marine."

 

[CosmicGamer]

Do they maintain they rank?

Not in the core rules.

In game mechanics, rank means nothing for any other core rules career you may wish to enter.

do soldiers (and marines and in general any military personnel) become civilian after they leave their military career or are ejected from it?

I'm not sure what you mean by civilian. The rules have a citizen career. You would need to roll for qualification, just like any other career change except drifter and draft.

Are they still called for example "Captain Johnson" from ex lower-grade comrade-in-arms? Do they still have to call him "sir" when they speak to him?

I am not aware of any requirement to do so in the game or in real life (in the USA). Unless you recognize someone because you served together, in general you wouldn't even know someone served in the military let alone what rank they were.

That said, it wouldn't be unheard of for a group of ex military who work closely together or stayed close friends or are drinking buddies at the veterans club to still refer to each other in a way that is familiar just out of habit.

 

[Condottiere]

You can address them by their former rank as a matter of courtesy. This may be socially enforced in more elitist societies.

The more interesting question would be in the event they were recalled, if they retain their former rank.

 

[CosmicGamer]

One should keep in mind that the Imperium is a society of noble leadership where high ranking Military officers gain social status. At this level (rank 6 Army, rank 5 marines, rank 5 Navy) I can see these people wearing both noble and former military rank insignia and requiring others to address them as per social customs.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

My question is the same as per title: do soldiers (and marines and in general any military personnel) become civilian after they leave their military career or are ejected from it?

Do they maintain they rank? Are they still called for example "Captain Johnson" from ex lower-grade comrade-in-arms? How do they have to (or should?) treat an ex higher-grade comrade? Do they still have to call him "sir" when they speak to him?

They become player characters afterwards (some would call them adventurers or travellers). Anyway, it all depends on how you want to role-play your character, and what their situation is.

 

[phavoc]

You can address them by their former rank as a matter of courtesy. This may be socially enforced in more elitist societies.

The more interesting question would be in the event they were recalled, if they retain their former rank.

In reality, yes. If you are recalled you come back at your old rank. For enlisted you could be recalled if you haven't served your 8 years total in the military (you are in the inactive ready reserve, or IRR). For officers the period you can be recalled back for is much longer. Both these rules apply only to US armed forces.

 

[dragoner]

I'd say yes, they become civilian; plus the Imperium utilizes conscripts, so there might be a greater social stratification between officers and enlisted.

 

[alex_greene]

This applies to a lot of hierarchical organisations, not just military ones. A priest who had to retire on health grounds can still be called "Father," "Monsignor" or "Your Grace" by the general public, unless he'd specifically been defrocked; a former Professor can still be called that, even though his formal title is Professor Emeritus and he's still technically a civilian. And a MD is always entitled to be called "Doctor," unless he's specifically been struck off the register by the review board.

A retired senior police officer may still occasionally be called "Guv'nor" or "Boss" by his former subordinates despite his insistence that he's not on the job any more and should be addressed as "Mister."

And Scouts in Traveller never retire. The Service won't allow them to. It would take a vile man indeed to so disgrace the uniform that the Scout Service would consider stripping him of his title. They'd probably just shoot him first.

Former military personnel may sometimes have little to hold on to after retirement; their mustering-out benefits, their dress uniform for ceremonial occasions and funerals; but their peers and other former buddies from the unit are likely to still address one another by their final rank, even in civilian life, as may those active military personnel who knew them and respected them.

But nobody who's an active serviceman will salute a retired ex-military person, no matter their rank, with one exception - those veterans who earned the equivalent of a Congressional Medal of Honor (in the US) - in Traveller, this would be the Starburst for Extreme Heroism (SEH) - must still be honoured with a salute.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I have a dearth of canon knowledge so what I'm posting is just one possibility and not me saying this is canon or how you should play.

To me, the SOC handouts in chargen represent grooming officers for more than just military leadership. As I indicated previously, the Imperium sort of puts their military officers on a pedestal. So it's possible that even retired, it is the social norm for these people to continue being an example and inspiration. Allowed and perhaps even in certain instances required to wear former rank insignia. If you do not give a proper acknowledgement (salute, bow, whatever) one could be chastised and even challenged for disrespecting them, their accomplishments, their position in society.

After achieving high rank, there very well may be certain responsibilities thrust upon these retired noble military people. Advisers, ambassadors, defense minister, leader of a hush hush off the books organization, and so on.

 

[alex_greene]

But nobody who's an active serviceman will salute a retired ex-military person, no matter their rank, with one exception

Maybe not a salute, but there is likely some social etiquette when dealing with someone with a high SOC, which a high rank ex-military person would have.

That deference would be reflected in their high SOC DM, along with a sense of having earned respect from their actions during their careers.

 

[FraNe91]

Anyway, it all depends on how you want to role-play your character, and what their situation is.

I'm asking because one of my players is an ex marine Captain who had to leave his career because he fought with a Force Commander that was envious (he's a Rival). Now this FC is going to board my players' ship to make an inspection, and of course this character is mad. My doubt was if he should still address him as "Force Commander" or "Sir" and behave like a marine in front of a superior in grade, but for what I understand he have not to, but could be appropriate to do so.

Of course if he does not do so this FC will be probably annoyed and will try to cause trouble for them :twisted:

And sorry for not having mentioned this before, it would have been a lot more clear...

do soldiers (and marines and in general any military personnel) become civilian after they leave their military career or are ejected from it?

I'm not sure what you mean by civilian. The rules have a citizen career. You would need to roll for qualification, just like any other career change except drifter and draft.

I intended civilian as non-soldier, with nothing to do with the Citizen career. Anyway, thanks.

 

[Condottiere]

It's a bit more complex than that, and can also depend on which branch or regiment you served with, so wearing the regimental tie or the super bowl ring can be an obvious hint.

 

[alex_greene]

If the FC is still on active duty, the ex-Captain now turned civilian doesn't have to call him "Sir" or anything. He's a civilian. He would only salute the serving Marine if said Marine deserved respect, and only if the ex-Marine Captain wanted to.

As a civvy, the ex-Marine Captain could address the Force Commander by name, if he wanted to. And if the ex-Captain happened to have a SEH, the Force Commander would have to salute him.

 

[FraNe91]

If the FC is still on active duty, the ex-Captain now turned civilian doesn't have to call him "Sir" or anything. He's a civilian. He would only salute the serving Marine if said Marine deserved respect, and only if the ex-Marine Captain wanted to.

As a civvy, the ex-Marine Captain could address the Force Commander by name, if he wanted to. And if the ex-Captain happened to have a SEH, the Force Commander would have to salute him.

That's exactly what I wanted to know
Sorry to everyone not to be clear from the beginning!

 

[Jacqual]

In my 3rd Imperium Traveller games Ex-Military characters retained the Rank Title if they were officers. They would lose it if they were court martialed, or ejected out due to misconduct that wasn't enough for a court martial but a "we will let you retire if you give up your rank, or your getting a court martial" type thing. I like doing it for game flavor.

EDIT
I also had in CT a player that while rolling up his Scout had to go 12 terms due to rolling 12's on everytime he tried to retire. So I named a scoutship after him, one of the Donelsev class (did I spell that right).

 

[alex_greene]

I also had in CT a player that while rolling up his Scout had to go 12 terms due to rolling 12's on everytime he tried to retire. So I named a scoutship after him, one of the Donelsev class (did I spell that right).

I like that. Was it called the "Lazarus Long?"

 

[Hopeless]

I remember the 2nd episode of the second season of Sherlock dealing with the HOUND of the Baskerville where Sherlock used a "borrowed" id of his brother's to enter a secure facility and Watson used his former service as a means of keeping up Sherlock's charade...

They even showed them checking up on his ID in case you were wondering... Sherlock's that is but I do recall the soldier saluting Watson because he was of higher rank, don't know if that helps at all but this thread reminded me of that scene!