Divine Cults for God Learners

[stacktrace]

I just got the new Cults book, and it is a most excellent product!

I was considering starting a campaign with the PCs aligned with the God Learners, but was disapointed that they did not have any Divine magic cults detailed. While it makes sense from what I know of Glorantha 2nd Age, I really like how Divine magic is done in RQ and wanted to include such options along with Sorcery.

I was planning to just borrow Orlanthi or Dara Harpa cults and God Learner them much like how the EWF has draconized versions. I am wondering though if any of the existing suppliments from the first editions already has details on God Learner Divine cults. Hoping that someone is familiar enough with the older products to provide an answer.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Loz]

IIRC all the God Learner cults from the 1st ed were sorcery-based too.

Part of the problem is that neither the saints, prophets or Invisible God grant magic directly. The saints are not gods, even though they can perform miracles, Malkion is a distant, quasi-messianic figure who does not intervene in mortal affairs, and the Invisible God's as intangible as you can get. What the Invisible God has done is provide the God Learners and Brithini with the cheat codes for manipulating reality rather than allowing them to channel His magic directly, as is the case with the pantheists.

I think establishing a Pact with any of the saints is very possible and would be a mark of true devotion; but what would you do with the dedicated POW? You'd need to attribute divine spells to the saints and then consider how that sits with the grimoires. A God Learner armed with both divine magic and sorcery would be extremely powerful indeed.

Not saying you shouldn't do this, BTW - just looking at what you'd need to do.

 

[stacktrace]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I realize that the addition of actual divine magic to God Learners breaks with canon and quite ok with doing so. Thank you for the wonderful idea of tying the divine magic to the Saints.

The warning is also helpful, I will make it an either/or choice for the players, Sorcery or Divine.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Not saying you shouldn't do this, BTW - just looking at what you'd need to do.

Well, you should never expect a God Learner to not do something just because they're not supposed to! They did, after all, get in trouble partly because they applied sorcerous manipulation techniques to divine spells.

 

[EricJ]

IIRC all the God Learner cults from the 1st ed were sorcery-based too.

Part of the problem is that neither the saints, prophets or Invisible God grant magic directly. The saints are not gods, even though they can perform miracles, Malkion is a distant, quasi-messianic figure who does not intervene in mortal affairs, and the Invisible God's as intangible as you can get. What the Invisible God has done is provide the God Learners and Brithini with the cheat codes for manipulating reality rather than allowing them to channel His magic directly, as is the case with the pantheists.

I think establishing a Pact with any of the saints is very possible and would be a mark of true devotion; but what would you do with the dedicated POW? You'd need to attribute divine spells to the saints and then consider how that sits with the grimoires. A God Learner armed with both divine magic and sorcery would be extremely powerful indeed.

Not saying you shouldn't do this, BTW - just looking at what you'd need to do.

If I had to guess, I'd say that a Jrustelan wizard who pacts with an Order of Saint Hrestol would not be a God Learner. God Learners try to manipulate pagan Gods, while the wizard would simply be part of the larger society. He would not want Hrestol to be manipulated. His powers may be Gifts, or selected Divine Spells imitating some of Hrestol's claimed miracles.

 

[Rungard]

If I had to guess, I'd say that a Jrustelan wizard who pacts with an Order of Saint Hrestol would not be a God Learner. God Learners try to manipulate pagan Gods, while the wizard would simply be part of the larger society. He would not want Hrestol to be manipulated. His powers may be Gifts, or selected Divine Spells imitating some of Hrestol's claimed miracles.

I agree with EricJ. Correct me if I'm wrong, but not all Western wizards are God Learners. The God Learners were one of the many sects of their Empire. However, they became one of the most (in)famous because their experiments allowed the Middle Sea Empire to grow exponentially and subjugate many lands with their advanced magic. That's why their enemies came to know this empire as the "God Learner Empire".

In my opinion, your players can play the role of "members of the Middle Sea Empire", and some of them (or all of them) can be God Learners. In the latter case, they won't have any respect for magic "rules". They'll just use everything besides sorcery (any cult, even their own Saints) to try to gain more power.