Dilgar vs Earth Early Years

[l33tpenguin]

Does anyone have the B5W cost of the Sharlin and the Warlock?

Sharlin = 1825
Warlock = 1800

Plus your omitting a rather major difference between a ship in a space battle targeting another ship visually and the Hubble targeting a galaxy.

A galaxy doesn't move (at least not at any appreciable speed), a ship does... you therefore have to use your hubble telescope device (which is fairly large thus even some of the big ships are unlikely to carry more than one, if they carry anything like it at all since sensors normally work better...) to spot your target (which is much smaller than a galaxy although of course at much less distance) then you have to visually determine its movements so that you can predict where it will be when your weapons fire reaches it to have even a chance of hitting it. By this point the Minbari have already locked onto your ship and taken it apart.


Nick

So, according to the canon of B5W, the Warlock and the Sharlin are on the same playing field.

I cited the Hubble as an extream example. Targeting a galaxy (and they are moving, btw VERY quickly...) is vastly more difficult than targeting a ship visually. Modern technology allows us to do this already. I'm pretty sure that what the Hubble can do now (or at least a more appropriate to ship to ship combat form), will be able to do by a weapon system mounted on a starship by 2260. Earth could get enough of a reading to know 'something' was there, point the scope at it and look at it.

Plotting firing solutions is all handled by the computer and is an easy task. Not to mention that beam weapons are travelling at the speed of light so are a no-brainer. Pulse and Plasma weapons are will make the same trip in 1-3 seconds at the most.

Minbari 'sensor' stealth is a very weak form of stealth, and is basically a kin to the modern stealth technology. A B2 bomber doesn't appear or radar (at least not obviously... it has the same radar cross section as say... a football) which is what gives it an advantage. Should an enemy know its general location, however, and look they would see it and could easily shoot it could easily be brought down by enemy fire.

 

[tneva82]

Again, yes going by b5wars, but they White Stars have the same jammer equipment as the Sharlins do.

But not by on-screen evidence. You put b5wars over serie itself in canonicality?

Also I'd think if their stealth was effective before the Minbari would have included it here as well.

White star was incredibly small ship for what it could do. Maybe stealth systems just wouldn't be able to fit and they opted for speed and manouverability + adaptive armour as defence.

But as seen in the series itself on TV they did NOT have stealth.

Could use your same arguement, no onscreen evidence to show they couldn't lock onto Sharlins.

There was mention that earth hasn't been able to still crack the stealth system. How could omegas lock if EA hasn't been able to crack the stealth yet?

 

[tneva82]

By the time the Delphi was in production, I think it is safe to say that Earth has cracked Minbari stealth.

There's no canonical evidence they do. By the time of B5 series they still hadn't been able to figure out how. How long from end of B5 tv series before Delphi came out? 20 years? Where on earth they made such a gargantuan leap in mere 2 decades or less?

 

[tneva82]

Minbari 'sensor' stealth is a very weak form of stealth, and is basically a kin to the modern stealth technology. A B2 bomber doesn't appear or radar (at least not obviously... it has the same radar cross section as say... a football) which is what gives it an advantage. Should an enemy know its general location, however, and look they would see it and could easily shoot it could easily be brought down by enemy fire.

Looking how EA hasn't been able to shoot with any accuracy at minbari vessels 'till B5 series and unknown when they eventually figured that one out hardly weak. Effectively gave them total immunity except at point blank range attacks(mostly ramming).

 

[l33tpenguin]

By the time the Delphi was in production, I think it is safe to say that Earth has cracked Minbari stealth.

There's no canonical evidence they do. By the time of B5 series they still hadn't been able to figure out how. How long from end of B5 tv series before Delphi came out? 20 years? Where on earth they made such a gargantuan leap in mere 2 decades or less?

Actually, through inference, there possibly is. The only time that I can remember Minbari stealth being brought into play was when the Minbari cruiser wanted to martyr itself. It was commented by Sheridan how he was surprised they could lock on since they were using an old sensor system, the same as during the E/M war. This could imply that a more modern system might have the capability to do so.

Also, considering where Earth had been getting its tech (Shadows, ISA) it is VERY likely that they have broken Minbari stealth within the following 20 years.

Minbari 'sensor' stealth is a very weak form of stealth, and is basically a kin to the modern stealth technology. A B2 bomber doesn't appear or radar (at least not obviously... it has the same radar cross section as say... a football) which is what gives it an advantage. Should an enemy know its general location, however, and look they would see it and could easily shoot it could easily be brought down by enemy fire.

Looking how EA hasn't been able to shoot with any accuracy at minbari vessels 'till B5 series and unknown when they eventually figured that one out hardly weak. Effectively gave them total immunity except at point blank range attacks(mostly ramming).

This was part of my argument why I don't like how 'powerful' Minbari stealth is. Modern advancements in weapons technology make hitting a one meter large object from several kilometers away (computer enhanced and assisted, of course) easy. To say that by 2260 we are unable to do the same against a kilometer tall target at a thousand kilometers away in the same fashion? ... that's just silly.

 

[blackphoenix]

That is why I'm a huge fan of the b5wars way they handled stealth. Rather it was a jamming device that prevented a "lockon" so weapon range penalties were doubled because of the lack of lockon, so a weapon with -1 per hex became -2 per hex.

Also it paired well with the sensor allocation system of b5wars. Often ships fighting Minbari would have to go on full offensive with sensors to get a decent chance to hit, but then would largely be sitting ducks for the return fire.

If a Minbari ship didn't want to be hit, the combination of allocating all sensors to defense and the jammer would largely guarentee safety at range.

Doesn't apply well to ACTA though...

 

[Triggy]

That is why I'm a huge fan of the b5wars way they handled stealth. Rather it was a jamming device that prevented a "lockon" so weapon range penalties were doubled because of the lack of lockon, so a weapon with -1 per hex became -2 per hex.

Also it paired well with the sensor allocation system of b5wars. Often ships fighting Minbari would have to go on full offensive with sensors to get a decent chance to hit, but then would largely be sitting ducks for the return fire.

If a Minbari ship didn't want to be hit, the combination of allocating all sensors to defense and the jammer would largely guarentee safety at range.

Doesn't apply well to ACTA though...

Indeed, with ACtA, doubling of range would still mean that you either hit or missed depending on breaking Stealth or not (aside from being very close where you'd automatically hit all of the time regardless).