Demos fix
- Thread starter Lord David the Denied
- Start date
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I could get down with that, but it seems to me that the Centauri philosophy for capital ships is mobile fortresses that create no-fly areas where enemy ships daren't go, allowing the ligher pack hunters to move in and kill them.
A 15" radius around the Octurion's heavy ion cannons and matter cannons would scare most ships, even high-level units. The Adira could be a departure from this, using Drakh beams and Centauri heavy guns to become a real ship-killer in its own right, while still being able to fulfill the older floating-battery role.
A 15" radius around the Octurion's heavy ion cannons and matter cannons would scare most ships, even high-level units. The Adira could be a departure from this, using Drakh beams and Centauri heavy guns to become a real ship-killer in its own right, while still being able to fulfill the older floating-battery role.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
With decent firepower all round, it would create the no-go areas where the flimsy Vree saucers wouldn't dare to venture - allowing the other Centauri ships that are more nimble chase them down. With some interceptors it could weather a lot of fire from Vree anti-matter torpedoes or cannons at range, too.
The battle was Space Superiority with a pair of dust clouds and a small asteroid field.
Fleets were:
1 x Octurion
1 x Elutarian
1 x Balvarin
4 x Demos (8AD Ion Cannon)
2 x Maximus
1 x Morgrath
1 x Corvan
1 x Z'Takk
1 x Xonn
1 x Xill
2 x Xixx
2 x Vaarl
1 x Xeel (4AD)
2 x Xaar (10", Twin-Linked, Double Damage)
Centauri won the deployment roll and deployed first to claim the asteroid field and stop me hiding behind it. I then deployed behind a dust cloud that although close to my table edge afforded me cover. David kept all four Demos and the Morgrath in hyperspace and I kept the Z'Takk in hyperspace.
Basically the first turn saw the Centauri surround my position with jump points and I put mine behind the enemy fleet. One Xixx took a bit of a pounding from the Elutarian but other than that we closed in and once everything came out of hyperspace in turn two the real fight started. The Xill took a pounding and a weapons destroyed critical from a pair of Demos and the other Xixx was destroyed by the other pair of Demos (at this point virtually every ship had at least one fighter providing Interceptor support.) I kept out of range of the Octurion and got my entire fleet to target the Corvan and one Demos pair on my left flank which eventually died (with the last of my ships shooting!)
From there, I'd weathered the storm and got the centre of my line behind the dust clouds again forcing David to send his ships either through the cloud or swing to his right to take on the Z'Takk and a Vaarl and a pair of Xaars that had come round his rear. Unfortunately for him David split his fleet and let my ships behind cover safely shoot his Elutarian and remaining Demos whilst the Z'Takk and support picked off the Maximuses whilst staying out of range of his Balvarin and Octurion. When only the Xeel had died (making three Skirmish PL ship losses) against all but the Octurion and Balvarin (that was already damaged) we called it a game there.
There were two main mistakes that David made and they were not to keep his "solid" units to the centre of his fleet during deployment and barrel forwards into my line. He could have taken his time getting the Demos to support him as until the Centauri got close, there was no chance I was coming out of cover.
The other mistake was to split his forces at the crucial time. This allowed my turreted firepower to still target his ships and my excellent manoeuvrability to evade the harder hitting ships (well, actually they evaded all but the two Maximuses, one arc on the Balvarin and the Octurion's lasers).
My tactics weren't spectacular but they laid the trap and didn't need to do anything else too fancy. The Xaars worked well as did the Xeel and these are changes I'd like to keep. The Demos were massively targetted by me yet still were the only ships to inflict any real damage on my fleet and they withstood a tremendous pounding. Still, I'd like to try a couple of playtests with exclusively Demos fleets against a few different opponents at 6,7 and 8AD to see how they fare.
Fleets were:
1 x Octurion
1 x Elutarian
1 x Balvarin
4 x Demos (8AD Ion Cannon)
2 x Maximus
1 x Morgrath
1 x Corvan
1 x Z'Takk
1 x Xonn
1 x Xill
2 x Xixx
2 x Vaarl
1 x Xeel (4AD)
2 x Xaar (10", Twin-Linked, Double Damage)
Centauri won the deployment roll and deployed first to claim the asteroid field and stop me hiding behind it. I then deployed behind a dust cloud that although close to my table edge afforded me cover. David kept all four Demos and the Morgrath in hyperspace and I kept the Z'Takk in hyperspace.
Basically the first turn saw the Centauri surround my position with jump points and I put mine behind the enemy fleet. One Xixx took a bit of a pounding from the Elutarian but other than that we closed in and once everything came out of hyperspace in turn two the real fight started. The Xill took a pounding and a weapons destroyed critical from a pair of Demos and the other Xixx was destroyed by the other pair of Demos (at this point virtually every ship had at least one fighter providing Interceptor support.) I kept out of range of the Octurion and got my entire fleet to target the Corvan and one Demos pair on my left flank which eventually died (with the last of my ships shooting!)
From there, I'd weathered the storm and got the centre of my line behind the dust clouds again forcing David to send his ships either through the cloud or swing to his right to take on the Z'Takk and a Vaarl and a pair of Xaars that had come round his rear. Unfortunately for him David split his fleet and let my ships behind cover safely shoot his Elutarian and remaining Demos whilst the Z'Takk and support picked off the Maximuses whilst staying out of range of his Balvarin and Octurion. When only the Xeel had died (making three Skirmish PL ship losses) against all but the Octurion and Balvarin (that was already damaged) we called it a game there.
There were two main mistakes that David made and they were not to keep his "solid" units to the centre of his fleet during deployment and barrel forwards into my line. He could have taken his time getting the Demos to support him as until the Centauri got close, there was no chance I was coming out of cover.
The other mistake was to split his forces at the crucial time. This allowed my turreted firepower to still target his ships and my excellent manoeuvrability to evade the harder hitting ships (well, actually they evaded all but the two Maximuses, one arc on the Balvarin and the Octurion's lasers).
My tactics weren't spectacular but they laid the trap and didn't need to do anything else too fancy. The Xaars worked well as did the Xeel and these are changes I'd like to keep. The Demos were massively targetted by me yet still were the only ships to inflict any real damage on my fleet and they withstood a tremendous pounding. Still, I'd like to try a couple of playtests with exclusively Demos fleets against a few different opponents at 6,7 and 8AD to see how they fare.
Thanks an intersting read 
What are your thoughts on the Octurion?
7 or 8 AD for the Demos sounds ok.
I notice a lack of Vree fighters I recal you said your fleet was ........different - do you think it would have been different if you could have jumped the Demos with massed fighters when they exited hyperspace?
What are your thoughts on the Octurion?
7 or 8 AD for the Demos sounds ok.
I notice a lack of Vree fighters I recal you said your fleet was ........different - do you think it would have been different if you could have jumped the Demos with massed fighters when they exited hyperspace?
I think the Octurion was a poor choice not used to its best in this battle but against other opponents it is not so bad. Maybe it would be better balanced with 24" beams but that's such a minor improvement that it probably won't happen. Against the Vree, taking a single big ship is rarely going to be to your advantage. My fleet would have been:
2 x Liati
2 x Corvan
2 x Maximus
8 x Demos
Not exactly imaginative but it would seriously kick ass against my Vree (I would include a Balvarin instead of one Corvan and one Maximus if against a generic Vree fleet).
The Demos I still prefer at more like 6AD but that's why I want it to go through some serious testing!
If I hadn't considered the Xeel to be broken when buying it, I may have bought a couple more. My optimal fleet would be to drop the Xixxes and take a couple more Xeels. You're right that the fighters would have been advantageous but they wouldn't have stopped the Centauri alpha strike as the Interceptors on the Demos are enough to keep them in the fight until the big guns hit home.
2 x Liati
2 x Corvan
2 x Maximus
8 x Demos
Not exactly imaginative but it would seriously kick ass against my Vree (I would include a Balvarin instead of one Corvan and one Maximus if against a generic Vree fleet).
The Demos I still prefer at more like 6AD but that's why I want it to go through some serious testing!
If I hadn't considered the Xeel to be broken when buying it, I may have bought a couple more. My optimal fleet would be to drop the Xixxes and take a couple more Xeels. You're right that the fighters would have been advantageous but they wouldn't have stopped the Centauri alpha strike as the Interceptors on the Demos are enough to keep them in the fight until the big guns hit home.
Triggy said:
I know its not your decision but it seems strange that if balance can be improved by small changes they are not implemented? 2nd ed is well on the way but tweeks here and there would just make it even better. For instance increasing the range on the Lakara's beam (to 18" or 20")would I feel help it alot..............
The 'floating battery' sounds good. Mind you, there's no problem with them having battle lasers, just so long as they're a distinctly secondary weapon...
One other thing that might be good is a bit of weapon swappage - the matter cannon is supposed to be old & busted whilst the plasma accelerator represents new hotness. I'd quite like to see the advanced ships (Adira and possibly the Dargan as well) swap over to the advanced weapon.
Interesting
maybe a variant.......................
Octurion Dominator - War
There have been many varients of the redoutable Octurion over the decades and this the latest version, takes it back to its roots. Matching incomparable firepower with the latest fighters and defensive technology the Dominator is ready to sail against any enemy and win
Speed: 6, Damage 70/18, Crew: 85/24, Turn: 1/45, Troops 8
Craft: 4 Rutarian Flights
Special: Antifighter 3, Carrier 2, Command +2, Interceptor 1, Jump engine, Lumbering
Weapons
Heavy Ion Cannon .....Range 15,. F arc, 10AD , AP, Double Damage, TL,
Plasma Accelerator.....Range 10..F arc, 12 AD, Double Damage, SAP
Heavy Ion Cannon .....Range 15, P arc, 8AD , AP, Double Damage, TL,
Plasma Accelerator.....Range 10..P arc, 8 AD, Double Damage, SAP
Heavy Ion Cannon .....Range 15, S arc, 8 AD , AP, Double Damage, TL,
Plasma Accelerator.....Range 10..S arc, 8 AD, Double Damage, SAP
Heavy Ion Cannon .....Range 15, A arc, 8 AD , AP, Double Damage, TL,
Plasma Accelerator.....Range 10..A arc, 4 AD, Double Damage, SAP
maybe a variant.......................
Octurion Dominator - War
There have been many varients of the redoutable Octurion over the decades and this the latest version, takes it back to its roots. Matching incomparable firepower with the latest fighters and defensive technology the Dominator is ready to sail against any enemy and win
Speed: 6, Damage 70/18, Crew: 85/24, Turn: 1/45, Troops 8
Craft: 4 Rutarian Flights
Special: Antifighter 3, Carrier 2, Command +2, Interceptor 1, Jump engine, Lumbering
Weapons
Heavy Ion Cannon .....Range 15,. F arc, 10AD , AP, Double Damage, TL,
Plasma Accelerator.....Range 10..F arc, 12 AD, Double Damage, SAP
Heavy Ion Cannon .....Range 15, P arc, 8AD , AP, Double Damage, TL,
Plasma Accelerator.....Range 10..P arc, 8 AD, Double Damage, SAP
Heavy Ion Cannon .....Range 15, S arc, 8 AD , AP, Double Damage, TL,
Plasma Accelerator.....Range 10..S arc, 8 AD, Double Damage, SAP
Heavy Ion Cannon .....Range 15, A arc, 8 AD , AP, Double Damage, TL,
Plasma Accelerator.....Range 10..A arc, 4 AD, Double Damage, SAP
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
That's just better in every way than the Octurion...
I do like the idea of advanced ships like the Dargan and Adira ditching the old-style matter weapons. Plasma accelerators aren't heavily used enough.
I do like the idea of advanced ships like the Dargan and Adira ditching the old-style matter weapons. Plasma accelerators aren't heavily used enough.
I disagree. The background clearly has them intensely jealous of and looking to duplicate the Minbari beam technology, though they have not yet figured it out. Beams are entirely appropriate in some of their newer vessels for that reason. I do think the more advanced ships would lose the old-style matter-based weapons though except perhaps in planetary bombardment actions.
Cheers, Gary
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
On a quick scan it seems way too good. Four Sentris swapped for four Rutarians has to be paid for. The interceptor and carrier traits have to be paid for and I'm not seeing any reduction in firepower or hits, crew etc to balance them.
Plasma accelerators should be range 12" for consistency, and I'd only mount them up front. Maybe torps as well to give it some ship-killing ability in the Centauri's favoured forward arc and leave the heavy ion cannons to port, starboard and aft to form the no-go area for enemy ships.
Plasma accelerators should be range 12" for consistency, and I'd only mount them up front. Maybe torps as well to give it some ship-killing ability in the Centauri's favoured forward arc and leave the heavy ion cannons to port, starboard and aft to form the no-go area for enemy ships.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
I'm going to restat the whole fleet at some stage and post it up as an alternate version for them as wants it. Not sure Triggy will let me use it, but I need the exercise. Gets boring here. 
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