Demos fix

I hate this idea because its yet another attempt to make a glass hammer. These ships always become contraversial, and we'll still be stuck on the argument for a long time.

Easiest fix for this ship is tone down the Ion Cannon... either to the level of the Vorchan and pull the Interceptor or down a couple AD below the Vorchan and call it even. At that point it becomes just like the other flanking/light bombardment ships... something you think about and take in limited numbers for specific builds... not just a wholesale replacement for the Vorchan.

A lot of testing has gone into it already, and we can see where it's just missing by a bit on the high side... if you bump up to raid you start from scratch again.

Ripple
 
Ripple said:
Easiest fix for this ship is tone down the Ion Cannon... either to the level of the Vorchan and pull the Interceptor or down a couple AD below the Vorchan and call it even.
Click to expand...

That is what is likely to happen. And you can't lose the interceptor because it was in the show - the Demos is based on the weaponry displayed in "Movements of Fire and Shadow."
 
Greg Smith said:
That is what is likely to happen. And you can't lose the interceptor because it was in the show - the Demos is based on the weaponry displayed in "Movements of Fire and Shadow."
Click to expand...

Erhhh, doesn't that mean it should just be a refit then? After all, the G'Quans F-arc beam is......... ;)

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Regards,

Dave
 
My Vree took on a Centauri fleet tonight containing 4 Demos with 8AD Ion Cannon (we were testing out a few potential mods) and they did a fair amount of damage still but were stubbornly hard to kill. Two (plus a single Corvan) took the entire 5 Battle FAPs of Vree fleet firing on them to die although the other two died to a couple of rounds of Xonn fire (although this really should still be expected).

Unfortunately insufficient to draw conclusions due to me targetting the hell out of them. David and I will try a couple of all-Demos games with 6,7 or 8 AD in the near future to see how they fare...
 
Greg Smith said:
That is what is likely to happen. And you can't lose the interceptor because it was in the show - the Demos is based on the weaponry displayed in "Movements of Fire and Shadow."
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't think the Demos is the problem. I think it's the way Close Blast Doors works IYAM. Fix that so it halves all weapons' AD instead of being able to fire only one and I think it would fix not only the Demos, but a few other ships as well. JMO...

Cheers, Gary
 
Triggy said:
My Vree took on a Centauri fleet tonight containing 4 Demos with 8AD Ion Cannon (we were testing out a few potential mods) and they did a fair amount of damage still but were stubbornly hard to kill. Two (plus a single Corvan) took the entire 5 Battle FAPs of Vree fleet firing on them to die although the other two died to a couple of rounds of Xonn fire (although this really should still be expected).

Unfortunately insufficient to draw conclusions due to me targetting the hell out of them. David and I will try a couple of all-Demos games with 6,7 or 8 AD in the near future to see how they fare...
Click to expand...

I will point to the Xonn in this one! (You knew I would say that.)

Do it against the baseline types -- Hyperions:Olympus and/or Var'Nic:Thentus; I think this will prove far more instructive.

Edit: Two more flavors that should be pretty vanilla tests for it: Targrath:Ochliavita, Elutarian:Vorchan and a beam flavor, Sulust:Mograth (no reason you can't run a test flight against something from its own race!).
 
Here's my idea for a Demos:

Demos Heavy Warship

Hull 5 PL Raid
Speed 10 Special Jumppoint Agile Atmospheric
Turns 2/45 Troops 2
Damage 28/8 Crew 32/8


Weapons Arc Range AD Special
Heavy Ion Cannon F 15 8 AP T-L DD
Plasma Accelerator F 12 6 SAP DD
Light Ballistic Torpedo F 20 6 SAP Precise SL
 
That's something like what I was looking at, but the heavy ion cannon is always range 15" when it appears on other ships, and the torp stats you've got down are for light torps. The full-on ballistic torpedoes are range 30" and DD...
 
Compare with the similar, and already outstanding for its PL, Omelos. This is overbuilt.

Right neighborhood, mind you. Recommend trading down several guns for a few dice of Antifighter; a Raid ship without any defense against a single fighter makes absolutely no sense from a fleet architecture standpoint. It's just daft.

Also remember that any Demos must have an interceptor to comply with canon, and this does not. The defensive improvements should be paid for by crew and damage.
 
although at speed 10 - a Maximus could keep up with it ? or at least stay within AF escort range.....

With the interceptor they can be suprisingly resiliant against fighters.........esp single dice ones like new Gaim or Dilgar.......
 
I would keep its speed to around 12-14. centauri can do big fast ships - the liati for example.
but i would leave it with standard ion cannons too.
and no AF as thats just pasting over a weakness for the centauri.
 
Lord David the Denied said:
I had an idea yesterday for fixing the Demos situation. Anyone interested in seeing it go back to Raid level? It could be upgunned at that level and pay for it in other areas. I can knock up stats if anyone would approve of the idea at all?
Click to expand...

A "knocked up" Demos... thanks for that visual ;)
 
silashand said:
Greg Smith said:
That is what is likely to happen. And you can't lose the interceptor because it was in the show - the Demos is based on the weaponry displayed in "Movements of Fire and Shadow."
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't think the Demos is the problem. I think it's the way Close Blast Doors works IYAM. Fix that so it halves all weapons' AD instead of being able to fire only one and I think it would fix not only the Demos, but a few other ships as well. JMO...

Cheers, Gary
Click to expand...

Good point.
 
CBD is not the issue with the Demos.

Yes the Demos uses the that issue very well... but the ship is simply overgunned for its level. The Vorchan is seen as a good skirmish ship... over of the best. The Demos then gets an active defense, more range and extra dice on its ion canon.

The main gun is fairly close in utility between the ships... one is slow loading but has precise, more AD and range, the other has double damage.

So how is the upgrade in defense and secondary guns paid for? That's the issue...

Ripple
 
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