d20 DC vs. Legend skill modifiers

[superc0ntra]

I'm trying to convert a D&D adventure to Legend but am not sure how to handle Difficulty Classes.
DC 10 is average but taking this as a 0 modifier and then +/- 5% for each DC seems to put the Legend players at a huge disadvantage since level is added to the d20 roll.

Example a d20 lvl 6 character rolls d20+7 when attempting even something he only has a skill +1 in, passing the roll 80% of the times (misses only on 1 or 2). What would lvl 6 correspont to in skill? 60%?, 80%?. From the numbers it should be 80% but that seems high as a skill average.

Any ideas? I'm trying to make an easy conversion, otherwise I'll just wing it.

 

[DamonJynx]

Firstly, what version of D&D are you playing? As far as I can recall, for version 3.0 and above skills are based on ability modifier + ranks + synergy bonus' + magic. Character Level is NEVER added. Spellcasters add the spell level + their ability modifier (INT. WIS or CHA) to 10 to determine the save DC's for spells.

Regardless, Legend skill checks are generally opposed. In situations where they are NOT, the character just rolls his skill check and either scores a critical, success, failure or fumble.

To convert NPC and monster (creature) skills over I multiply the creatures skill modifier x 5 and add that to the equivalent Legend skill's base chance. So, if a D&D creature had a Spot skill of 7 and INT of 11 and POW of 13, its Perception skill would be 35+24=59%. For ability scores I substitute WIS for POW leaving the others the same and either make a guess of SIZ or as Prime-Evil suggested on another thread, use the average of STR+CON.

Hope that helps.

 

[Chorpa]

Firstly, what version of D&D are you playing? As far as I can recall, for version 3.0 and above skills are based on ability modifier + ranks + synergy bonus' + magic. Character Level is NEVER added. Spellcasters add the spell level + their ability modifier (INT. WIS or CHA) to 10 to determine the save DC's for spells.

It does sound like he is running a 4th Edition game. There you get get a bonus from Character Level if I am not mistaken.

DC 10 is average but taking this as a 0 modifier and then +/- 5% for each DC seems to put the Legend players at a huge disadvantage since level is added to the d20 roll.

I wouldn't say DC 10 is average. I am not sure about 4th Edition but in previous edition you always had the option to Take 10 (except in very stressful situations). So in normal situations you would always succeed on a DC 10. With the below example you give DC 17 be the sweet spot for the character. In the beginning I went by the inverted percentage approach already established in Rolemaster/HARP and similar games. So basically he has to reach DC 20 on a successful skill roll. In the above example he would then have a 35% chance. There the skill bonus was just multiplied by 5 and turned into a percentage. But this approach had the problem that for low level characters skills often ended up below Base Chances in Legend. So I modified it the same way as DemonJynx suggest by adding it Base Chances to avoid this problem.

To convert NPC and monster (creature) skills over I multiply the creatures skill modifier x 5 and add that to the equivalent Legend skill's base chance. So, if a D&D creature had a Spot skill of 7 and INT of 11 and POW of 13, its Perception skill would be 35+24=59%. For ability scores I substitute WIS for POW leaving the others the same and either make a guess of SIZ or as Prime-Evil suggested on another thread, use the average of STR+CON.

Hope that helps.

I agree. That is about the same what I do and does seem to generate the best results. I do remove the stat bonuses from d20 skills before I convert them to Legend skills though. So for example the above Character have +7 as a skill bonus. Let's +2 is gained from a stat, that would reduce it to +5 before you convert it and add it to Legend base stat.
On the SIZ subject I recreate it using the scale that exists in Basic Roleplaying and RuneQuest 6. STR+CON is a simple solution if you don't have access to either or don't know the persons height & weight. But you can get tables that describes this from p.36 of the Game Master Pack you can download for free here: http://www.thedesignmechanism.com/downloads.php

 

[DamonJynx]

I agree. That is about the same what I do and does seem to generate the best results. I do remove the stat bonuses from d20 skills before I convert them to Legend skills though. So for example the above Character have +7 as a skill bonus. Let's +2 is gained from a stat, that would reduce it to +5 before you convert it and add it to Legend base stat.
On the SIZ subject I recreate it using the scale that exists in Basic Roleplaying and RuneQuest 6. STR+CON is a simple solution if you don't have access to either or don't know the persons height & weight. But you can get tables that describes this from p.36 of the Game Master Pack you can download for free here: http://www.thedesignmechanism.com/downloads.php

Yes, absolutely you can do that - and I do as well, it depends on a) how much time you have for prep and b) how difficult you want the encounter to be in comparison to your groups skills. If you take the stat bonus' out before multiplying you'll generally end up with creatures where the skill is 5%-20% lower - this may or may not be important.

• SKILL CHECK BONUSES
  When you create your character, you should determine your base skill check bonus for each skill youknow. Your base skill check bonus for a skill includes the following:
  ✦ One-half your level
  ✦ Your ability score modifier (each skill is based on one
  of your ability scores)
  ✦ A +5 bonus if you’re trained in the skill
  In addition, some or all of the following factors might
  apply to your base skill check bonus:
  ✦ Armor check penalty, if you’re wearing some kinds
  of armor (see Chapter 7) and making a check using
  Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution as the key ability
  ✦ Racial or feat bonuses
  ✦ An item bonus from a magic item
  ✦ A power bonus
  ✦ Any untyped bonus that might apply

I would still do the same for 4E creatures.

Remember, there is no way to get a conversion exact. The idea is to generate skills that adequately represent the D&D creature so your players can have fun besting it, either in combat or social interaction.

 

[superc0ntra]

Maybe I have misunderstood the rules in D&D since I haven't played it since the AD&D days and level is not added. It's a Conan d20 adventure I want to run.

Basically I'm not really out for the creature's skills but more of "This lock is DC 20". Would that then be a -50% lock? That seems really harsh.
I think I'll set DC 15 at 0 and add or subtract 5 times the difference in DC from that.
Would that be good enough? I don't want to spend too much time on this.

 

[The Wolf]

I tended to look at what felt right with Spider God's Bride 1 and 2. So you could set that lock to Difficult.

 

[DamonJynx]

I tended to look at what felt right with Spider God's Bride 1 and 2. So you could set that lock to Difficult.

Yes, I agree with Darren. If all you're after is to modify unopposed skills, use the modifiers from page 39 of Legend with DC10 being routine and adjust from there. Personally, I prefer to set a "skill" level for the maker or whatever but in the end, it's whatever works best for you and your group.

 

[superc0ntra]

Personally, I prefer to set a "skill" level for the maker or whatever...

And then run it as an opposed roll. I love that idea, thanks!

 

[Dan True]

Take a look at the last page in my Eberron conversion (link in the signature). That's my take on it.

- Dan

 

[superc0ntra]

Take a look at the last page in my Eberron conversion (link in the signature). That's my take on it.

- Dan

That's exactly what I was looking for.