Critical Hit Tables

[MustEatBrains]

Apart from that, I wouldn´t consider crew critical laughable - I´ve recently watched a Bin´Tak being reduced to 0 crew way before it reached it´s damage threshhold... and crew makes sense in a campaign, too!

At the moment a Crew critical is way better to get that any other type of critical (even an engine critical)
why? because with engines and Reactor you may get speed 0, with Weapons crits, well thats obvious if you cant shoot then whats the point of your ship being out there and Vital Systems are always bad news, but the worst with Crew criticals is 3 Damage and a few more crew, anyways its better to have a ship with not alot of crew than a dead ship

Still, it is extra damga which would normally not have been caused if it hadn´t been a critical hit. So, anything on the critical hit table is a bonus to what you normally do to your opponents, regardless of whether it´s the best or worst possible result.

You can always hope for criticals, but you must be prepared to defeat your opponent without them!

 

[Pauly_D]

Apart from that, I wouldn´t consider crew critical laughable - I´ve recently watched a Bin´Tak being reduced to 0 crew way before it reached it´s damage threshhold... and crew makes sense in a campaign, too!

At the moment a Crew critical is way better to get that any other type of critical (even an engine critical)
why? because with engines and Reactor you may get speed 0, with Weapons crits, well thats obvious if you cant shoot then whats the point of your ship being out there and Vital Systems are always bad news, but the worst with Crew criticals is 3 Damage and a few more crew, anyways its better to have a ship with not alot of crew than a dead ship

Still, it is extra damga which would normally not have been caused if it hadn´t been a critical hit. So, anything on the critical hit table is a bonus to what you normally do to your opponents, regardless of whether it´s the best or worst possible result.

You can always hope for criticals, but you must be prepared to defeat your opponent without them!

yes a crew critical is better than no critical, but for the defending ship a crew critical is easier to live through than most other criticals

 

[Sulfurdown]

Resurrecting an old topic. I've been doing some more dabbling in custom Critical Tables and did some work on a Communications Systems chart.



Communications (1d6)
---------------------------------
1-3 = Internal Communications Disrupted [1 dmg, 2 crew; Current Special Action is cancelled.]

4 = Static Distortions [3 dmg , 2 crew; Fleet Initative is reduced by 1 (non-cumulative) while this ship is on the board.]

5 = Communications Array Down [4 dmg, 2 crew; This ship must always be the first selected to move. (If more then one, consider them a subset of the movement phase before all other ships.)]

6 = Static Over All Channels [4 dmg, 3 crew; Fleet Initative is reduced by 3 (non-cumulative) while this ship is on the board.]
---------------------------------


Any critiques?

 

[katadder]

yeah - why would fleet init be reduced so much because of one ship? i an see the worst crit being that ship having to be moved 1st, and maybe a no SA effect in there also.

 

[Chernobyl]

for internal communications disrupted, I would recommend that either
a) must attempt same special order next turn or
b) may attempt no special orders next turn

For those static distortions, you might just say "Ship loses Command trait"

 

[Target]

Resurrecting an old topic. I've been doing some more dabbling in custom Critical Tables and did some work on a Communications Systems chart.



Communications (1d6)
---------------------------------
1-3 = Internal Communications Disrupted [1 dmg, 2 crew; Current Special Action is cancelled.]

4 = Static Distortions [3 dmg , 2 crew; Fleet Initative is reduced by 1 (non-cumulative) while this ship is on the board.]

5 = Communications Array Down [4 dmg, 2 crew; This ship must always be the first selected to move. (If more then one, consider them a subset of the movement phase before all other ships.)]

6 = Static Over All Channels [4 dmg, 3 crew; Fleet Initative is reduced by 3 (non-cumulative) while this ship is on the board.]
---------------------------------


Any critiques?

This is the first location on our chart. It has comms down.
(1)
1-Power surge - - -2 to all CQ checks next rnd
2 Comms Down - - Ship moves before all others next turn
3 Weapon Failures - - Weapons fire on a 2+
4 Targeting Comps - - -1 to hit next turn
5 Engines Cut - - Move forward 1/2 speed & no turns
6 Defense Grid Down - - -1 Hull next turn

Yous seems to have a lot of damage with them , suppose it depends wher e it goes in your chart.

 

[Target]

Here's our current one that we have been using for last year or so.
Yes it does have ship explodes, we like it or i know a lot of people will hate it but here it is.
PS : It also has fires another hate people have.

(1)
1-Power surge - - -2 to all CQ checks next rnd
2 Comms Down - - Ship moves before all others next turn
3 Weapon Failures - - Weapons fire on a 2+
4 Targeting Comps - - -1 to hit next turn
5 Engines Cut - - Move forward 1/2 speed & no turns
6 Defense Grid Down - - -1 Hull next turn

(2)
1 Thursters damaged - - No turns next turn
2 Engine Damage +1 - 1/2 speed next turn
3 Engine Power hit - +1 Speed 0 next turn
4 Thursters Destroyed +1 - No turns
5 Engines Heavily dam +2 +1 1/2 Speed
6 Engines Destroyed +4 +2 Speed 0

(3)
1 Targeting Comp hit - - No Secondary weapons
2 Primary Targeting Comp- - No primary weapon
3 Weapon Control out - +1 Only 1 arc may fire
4 TC destroyed - - -1 to hit
5 Weapons Damaged +1 +1 Weapons fire on 4+
6 Weapons Destroyed +3 +4 No weapons fire

(4)
1 Bulk Head fire - +1
2 Secondary Deck Fire - +2 +1 crew per turn
3 Engine deck fires - +3 Turns need a CQ7 to make
4 Primary deck fires - +3 +2 Crew per turn
5 Localised Decomps +1 +3 -1 Hull
6 Hull Breach +2 +4 Skeleton Crew

(5)
1 Power surges - - No special actions
2 Comms out - +1 Ship moves before all others
3 Power sys hit +1 +1 Only fire 1 arc
4 Reactor Damage - +2 +3 crew per turn
5 Power Shorts +2 - Weapons out or Spd 0
6 Reactor Destroyed +3 +4 No Spc Actions & Weaps out or Spd 0

(6)
1 Operations Dest - +1 No Spc actons
2 Bridge Destroyed +1 +3 No turns & weapons fire 4+
3 Engineering Dest +3 +2 1/2 Spd & No Turns
4 Secondary Expl d6+1 d6+1 +2 dam per turn
5 Reactor Implosion 2d6+1 d6+1 +4 dam per turn, Crippled
6 Ship Explodes

With the Crippled & Skeleton Crew they can be repaired. It just makes the ship act like they are even though they haven't reached the thresholds.
We will be looking at upgrading this at some stage. Any ideas oill be welcome.

 

[Sulfurdown]

yeah - why would fleet init be reduced so much because of one ship? i an see the worst crit being that ship having to be moved 1st, and maybe a no SA effect in there also.

The high fleet initiative penalty was (for fluff reasons) because the ship communications were hit but instead of going offline the input signal was lost so it's dumping a tremendous amount of white noise and jamming local communications. The original chart that I was working from used d20s so the threat of some of the high end crits occurring is far lower, for the d6 version a -2 to fleet initiative would probably be more suited. Since, just like the command bonus, it doesn't stack and since it can still be repaired, I didn't see the impact as that severe. But I also haven't had a chance to play test it yet.

I considered canceling the command bonus but that doesn't affect 90% of the ships out there and I was trying to have the criticals have a more universal effect. (Hedging away from those times when you get a crit on a T'Loth and it ends up being a crew crit.) Smooth out the highs and fill in the lows.

Yous seems to have a lot of damage with them , suppose it depends wher e it goes in your chart.

You're definitely right there - that will have to be rebalanced across the board for my charts. I like the CQC to make turns - that may replace my entry to reduce the number of turns.

 

[Apachex]

Well I will weigh in with the crit table I have been playing with:

1- Systems/Life Support
Roll Result Dam Crew Special
1 Internal Comms Disruption 0 0 No CQ checks next round
2 External Comms Disruption 0 1 Ship moves before all others next turn
3 Power Surge 0 1 No Special Action Next Round
4 Internal Comms Out 0 0 -2 to all CQ checks
5 Localised Decompression 1 3
6 Hull Breach 2 4

2 - Engineering
Roll Result Dam Crew Special
1 Power Relays Destroyed 0 0 -1 Speed
2 Light Engine Damage 1 0 -2 Speed
3 Heavy Engine Damage 2 1 -4 Speed
4 Reactor Leak 0 3 No Special Actions
5 Reactor Explosion 3 4 No Special Actions
6 Engines Disabled 3 1 Speed 0, No Special Actions

3 - Thrusters
Roll Result Dam Crew Special
1 Power Relay Damaged 0 1
2 Thruster Failure 1 0 No turns next turn
3 Thruster Misfire 2 0 Ship Turns 45 d6: 1-3 P, 4-6 S
4 Control Cut 1 1 Ship Drifts Forward 1/2 speed No turns
5 Thrusters Damaged 2 1 Ship loses 1 Turn. (Min 1/45)
6 Thrusters Destroyed 3 1 Ship may not turn

4 - Weapons
Roll Result Dam Crew Special
1 Firing Circuit Interupt 1 0 -1 to Hit next turn
2 Power Fluctuations 1 0 Each Weapon only fires on 4+ on d6
3 Targeting System Damaged 0 1 All weapons Lose 1 AD (Min 0)
4 Targeting System Destroyed 0 2 All firing at -1 to hit
5 Weapons Offline 2 2 No Weapons can fire Next Turn
6 Catastrophic Weapons Failure 3 4 No Weapons can Fire

5 - Systems
Roll Result Dam Crew Special
1 Targetting Computer Damaged 0 1 Ship may only fire from One ARC per turn
2 Defensive Grid Disrupted 1 0 GEG or INT Out next turn
3 Defensive Grid Destroyed 2 1 GEG or INT Destroyed
4 Flight Bays Damaged 1 1 Vessal may not launch or recover fighters
5 Secondary Relays Destroyed 1 1 Secondary Weapons Inoperative
6 Primary Relays Destroyed 2 2 Primary Weapon Inoperative

6 - Critical
Roll Result Dam Crew Special
1 Bridge Hit 0 1 No Special Action
2 Engineering 4 3 No Damage Control
3 Weapons Control 4 4 No Firing from Random Arc
4 Secondary Explosions 1d6 1d6
5 Reactor Implosion 2d6 4d6
6 Catasrtophic Explosion 4d6 2d6

I wanted to capture data to the three critical elements: Shoot Move and Communicate as well as incorporate some bad stuff for secondary systems as well.

 

[CodeofArms]

I've been testing a change in the actual critical table recently, rather than trying to come up with new criticals I've been mixing up the area affected on the D6 roll. All these tables have been tested at least three times using random scenario generation and fleet points. In some cases their was the usual overly-luck roll which skewed results so i've gone over the few reports that were a little more modest in rolls (Ie Not 3 6-6 or 6-5 crticals from a single weapon) and produced the most accurate results.

All of them have been tested using 5pt raid fleets.

The First one we tried was;

1-2: Structure ('Crew' Table)
3: Engine Hit
4: Reactor
5: Weapons
6: Vital Systems

Result; Alot of Niggling Crew Loss and Minor Explosions ended up silencing lower priority ships before they were able to see any real use in the battle. It was also agreed that because so many 'fires' broke out with 1-1 and 1-2 rolls meant no one need discuss fire rules agains seeing as the damage and crew loss represented the ideas more than adequately. Rolling 5 on a Critical also felt threatening rather than a 'sigh, almost a 6, i'd rather have a 4'.
Best feature: 5's were serious criticals, Narn players felt crew had actually gained in value, made the game feel a bit more cinematic with the change of language around the table ("Structure" sounded more sci-fi-ee)
Biggest Worry: Whitestars and other low crew ships may suffer the worst under changes as crew loss is alot higher.
Opinion: My choice for a new table to be used at my gaming group. Though some opposition from ISA player everyone was happy enough that good rolls (5's on Crit rolls) had an impact; even poor criticals at least felt 'critical' and even in low priority games it felt that a 1/2-X was something to fear on a critical damage dice. The biggest drawback however was that in low priority games alot of crewless hulks were floating about doing nothing other than look pretty.

The Second Table looked as such;

1: Structure
2-3: Engines
4: Reactor
5: Weapons
6: Vital Systems

Result; Not alot of difference to the current and previous critical table to be honest except a little more damage occured with 'poor' criticals. Ships however did seem to end up tutting about alot slower as 'average' rolls on criticals began to kill speed and keep repair crews running.
Best Feature: Appeased the very conservative players (those who oppose nearly all changes that are not 'official) enough to allow more flexible testing.
Biggest Worry: Lumbering fleets are made to lumber even more on average 3-2, 3-3 and 3-4 rolls. May displease players at a slight loss of game pace.
Opinion: Not much had really changed and although their was a teething period from the table going 1-2, 3, 4 etc to 1, 2-3, 4, etc people who wanted a change but not an extreme one were happy enough to allow it to sink in.

The third table was;

1: Structure ('Crew')
2: Engines
3: Reactor
4: Weapons
5-6: Vital Systems

Result: To begin I had real reservations about using this; but I realised in fairness I had to in order to get a real feel for all ends of the argument (Make Criticals less powerful, make criticals more powerful etc). The result is as expected; alot shorter games, alot more explosions, alot of dominance by the Precise weapons. Dice junkies were in heaven and when you got hit by a double or triple damage weapon it hurt. So much so I wanted to be a dilgar player. 'Weak' weapons were no longer living up to their namesake and long range missles made Earth so deadly it almost wasn't funny.
Best Feature: Game felt alot different; ships felt alot more vulnerable causing the game to be played with different tactics and greater ranges. Those who want more bang got what they wanted.
Biggest Worry: The sheer amount of crippling criticals can quickly put newcomers and veterans alike off to the game. Even if a ship was lucky it generally lost its special actions or damage control, meaning that soon enough ships were sitting far away from another, doing nothing in a right state as critical damage mounted.
Opinon: This was my least favourable table. Unless the redundancy rule was implemented ship did not last at all. People with problems with the current system were pretty much spitting bullets and by the time fighter-heavy fleets began to engage in the fray it was agreed the game was now well and truly based on who got lucky first.

The fourth table:

1-2: Engines
3: Weapons
4: Reactor
5:Structure ('Crew')
6: Vital Systems

Result; This one worked out quite well, though it was cetainly evident that you needed alot of AD on the chosen ships. In some cases the game became a battle of secondaries; the narn weak arrays were left working over time with so much lost AD from average criticals (3-2,3-3,3-4) and the Minbari were forced into mixing their fleets (I actually saw more than one neshetan for once) up to get the necessary AD to burn as the crits came in. Earth and other One-Trick-Pony ships (single weapon vessles; Artemis, nova etc) definately felt the blow. The general feeling was ships had their weapons taped on and they kept falling off, only to be reaplied and fall off again. This table clearly benefited Pulse ships and Twin-Link pop-guns were a drastic necessity to crack open hulls. Patrol ships also became a bit more of a factor in the game as they were generally ignored or spared because of the overall drop in AD.
Best Feature: Patrol ships actually got a few shots off and could nimble around without real fear of being blown in one. Inteceptors also became an important feature to soak up what little shots got through whilst high hulls definately became a real benefit. Minbari smug-beams were no longer a real kick in the teeth and even the Drakh had something nice to say.
Biggest worry: This pretty much saw the death of beam weapons. In the four games played ships with 4 or Less Beam attack dice were really struggling to cause the damage normally associated with them and Mag-guns became a real rarity. Frustrations also ran high with some poor rolls to get weapons to fire; in some cases the Minbari were really forced to place faith in stealth once weapons began to malfunction.
Opinion: Both the Minbari and Centauri players had an uphill battle against them once -1AD or 4+ criticals began to seep in at a higher than usual rate. The ISA player was happy to have his white-stars nibble fire-power away from opponents regularly, though it did not swing too much into his favour. As earth i was a little frustrated, again rolling 5's did not have the shazam i felt a high roll should have and the game also lasted alot longer than it should have because of the drop in overall damage. Features such as GEG and INT's meant real beefy ships were left facing each other in epic slug matches.

And thats what we tested. The after-game talks generally focused on how important Reactor vs Weapon criticals were and how much more important it would be if high reactor criticals disabled a ships special feature so i'll write up a new critical list and get a report up here as soon as i can get gaming again.

 

[Hash]

Interesting results - personally I've found crits to be one of the most annoying aspects of the game entirely, mainly because they are far too common (especially with precise weaponry) than because the crit table needs changing...

I'd favour simply finding a way to reduce crits in a game, e.g.

Almost every game I have played has had a high "luck" element, i.e. is often not decided by tactics or strategy but simply by how many crits you get....how about something like this after you hit:

Attack Table:
1 Bulkhead Hit: No damage dealt
2-5 Solid Hit: -1 Damage, -1 Crew to target ship
6 V. Solid Hit: -2 Damage, -2 Crew to target ship + (possible Critical Hit)

Roll again...

Crit or No Crit table:
1 - 3 No Critical Hit: No additional damage/crew - as per V.Solid Hit
4 - 6 Critical Hit: As V. Solid Hit but also roll on Systems Table

Precise could also act as +1 on the Crit or No Crit table... Maybe Masters of Destruction trait for Dilgar could change to ALWAYS get a Crit on the Crit or No Crit table instead of DD, TD

 

[Sulfurdown]

For a while (before the Comms chart) I had four crit charts and one vitals so by agreement with the other players we stated that 2-6 would be a crit chart but if you rolled a 1 you didn't get a critical. It made them slightly rarer. Overall I'm not sure what the opinions are on criticals in my local group but I favor criticals and the idea that battles are bloody and quick and once the firing starts, you better be quick on the tactical evasion.

 

[Target]

For a while (before the Comms chart) I had four crit charts and one vitals so by agreement with the other players we stated that 2-6 would be a crit chart but if you rolled a 1 you didn't get a critical. It made them slightly rarer. Overall I'm not sure what the opinions are on criticals in my local group but I favor criticals and the idea that battles are bloody and quick and once the firing starts, you better be quick on the tactical evasion.

Thats the great thing about this game is quick & brutal. Not really a game for people that are attached to their ships.
Our group loves crits, thats why we will doing a improved chart, with hits that damage traits, might make jump engines go boom if use them like the Secundas did beside B5, thursters being damaged.

 

[Ripple]

The only thing we don't like about them is it becomes stupid to take larger ships. Smaller ships squadroned together are almost always a better deal than large single ships that are disabled by a crit in the first turn or two of a fight. From a fluff standpoint given that enviornment we just cannot justify even building large ships as they die at the same speed as smaller ships.

Ripple

 

[Target]

The only thing we don't like about them is it becomes stupid to take larger ships. Smaller ships squadroned together are almost always a better deal than large single ships that are disabled by a crit in the first turn or two of a fight. From a fluff standpoint given that enviornment we just cannot justify even building large ships as they die at the same speed as smaller ships.

Ripple

The old no Damage Control crit is a killer thats why we took that one out. I try to screen my primus with maximus whenever possible, only use i can see with the haven apart from the fact that small ships are too fast. Also use the Balvarian for this job.

 

[Hugbiel]

I dislike anything that relie to mutch on luck, so i hate crit.

some math :
average damage for 1 hit :

D-1 on hit table : 0.67/0.67
no crit : 0.83/0.83
standard : 1.1/1.18 + 0.11 sides effects
precise : 1.53/1.7 + 0.22 sides effects

beeing able to do crit is an increase of 30% in firepower, precise a further increase of 40 % with 10% damage affecting more the crew.
But a big part (~30%) of these average damages come from a few (~10%) result.
25% of sides effect being like instant kill ( speed 0, no SA )
There's a few chance (~0.01%) that a sigle TD hit cripple most ship up to war level ( 60 damage )

And the crit are fixed in number, there effects change against different target. An TD hull breach will empty the crew of an Hermes but will do little damage on a Poseidon, an fuel system ruptured will stop an Orestes but have little effect on an White Star.
And the reactor of a little ship as the Chronos have the same chance to Explode than a big one as the Warlock.

Critical make the luck a realy big part in a battle, and big ship are realy hurt by their special effect.

If i want to reduce that I thing i will use a hit table like :
1 : bulk hit : 0 dmg
2-5 : solid hit : 1 dmg / 1crew
6: critical hit : 3dmg / 4 crew, cumulative : -1/4 starting speed ( loss round down for the final stat ( ie : -1/4 of 6 once : ship speed 5 twice ship speed 3)

when speed go to more than -4/4 : no sa, more than -8/4 no weapon fire.

So i still get the same average damage then the same average killing time.

 

[Hash]

But the distribution is less spread and hence less "luck" in games...

Hugbiel, I like that idea a lot!

Unfortunately I don't think my gaming group will

 

[Ripple]

I like the idea also...

We have talked a lot about removing the damage multiplier from crits as the fluff seems strange (ie why does my 'ammo' explode more violently from your beam than from his pulse?) and the effect on the game of instant kills at lower priorities makes these games less enjoyable fairly often (the SAP DD beams and DD Precise weapons being the culprit for lower games being popcorn watching events as the ships go up).

Some races are more crit dependant so we have not made any adjustments, but the tables do produce most of our least satisfing games as key ships are removed. (Only one really memorable moment that was fun in retrospect, my Kaliva going up in one shot to a Vorlon LC-tourney, right after we had talked about the fact that at least I had one ship I could count on being there for a bit.)

Ripple

 

[Target]

Less dam on crits i think would be a good idea as the dam actually already been done, only the explosive type ones doing damage.

 

[Silvereye]

Certainly Hugbiel's single table could speed up a lot of the larger games by removing a lot of the extra rolling and book keeping.

There is some merit to removing the damage multiplier on a critical hit. But then it is only the bigger criticals that amplify this a lot. A double damage on a +1 Crew isn't much, but when it is +4 or +4D6 it begins to bite a lot more.