Crew and Hull Damage

[Delthos]

Hi all, I'm new to A Call to Arms and I really like the game. I've got one problem so far and that is on the damage chart where one point of Hull damage always equals one point of Crew damage, except in critical hits of course.

I like the idea of a seperate Crew and Hull Damage, but the Critical hit rules being the only way to really vary damage sustained doesn't set well with me. I know there other abilities and equipment that can reduce certain damage but I just don't see every damage always effecting both. As it stands ships like the EA Explorer-class Survery Ship will always run out of crew long before it is close to being crippled. Granted they probably won't take place in many battles, but that just doesn't seem right to me.

Has any thought ever been given to using a damage table like the following? It would still allow for seperate Crew and Hull damage, but would feel better to me. I think most hits would damage both, but I don't think all would. I don't know what effect it would have on the game as I don't have enough experience. This problem jumped out at me almost immediately when reading through the rules. How do others feel?

1. No damage
2. -1 Crew
3. -1 Damage
4. -1 Crew and -1 Damage
5. -1 Crew and -1 Damage
6. Critical Hit, -1 Crew and -1 Damage

 

[CZuschlag]

It's not as violent as the current game is, which means that some ships have more persistent advantages. It's a downgrade to the 45 turn ships, and an upgrade to the 2/90 ships. And it definitiely makes the GEG too powerful; the GEG with this chart would be NASTY.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The crew are only going to be hurt when the hull is seriously damaged. The crew aren't going to just die because a hit fails to penetrate the hull or cause secondary explosions inside...

 

[katadder]

any solid hits will result in injured crew more than likely, and this is what this represents. dont think of it as all dying, think just put out of action etc. also crew are more suscetable to damage in space due to hull breachs etc.

 

[Burger]

Keep it like it is, it is nice and simple.

 

[katadder]

plus by the table suggested you will have narns praying for 1-2 as tey have so much crew, with WSs praying for 1&3

 

[Lord David the Denied]

any solid hits will result in injured crew more than likely, and this is what this represents. dont think of it as all dying, think just put out of action etc. also crew are more suscetable to damage in space due to hull breachs etc.

That's what I meant - when the ship takes damage the crew are hurt as well. If shots are pinging off the armour the crew aren't going to be inconvenienced.

 

[Burger]

That's what I meant - when the ship takes damage the crew are hurt as well. If shots are pinging off the armour the crew aren't going to be inconvenienced.

That's a bulkhead hit... causes no damage or crew loss, except DD or TD weapons, which cause 1 damage and no crew. I think what you suggest, is already in game

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Am I speaking some strange language no one understands?

The op is asking for some hits to do crew damage and no hull damage. I'm saying that's bloody stupid! Clear enough?

 

[H]

pardon?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

God damn you, Hiff, you Scouse git... :evil:

 

[H]

God damn you, Hiff, you Scouse git... :evil:

Bloody Brummie ;-)

 

[Reaverman]

Am I speaking some strange language no one understands?

The op is asking for some hits to do crew damage and no hull damage. I'm saying that's bloody stupid! Clear enough?

私は、繰り返しを喜ばすために理解しないか。 :twisted:

 

[thePirv]

Am I speaking some strange language no one understands?

The op is asking for some hits to do crew damage and no hull damage. I'm saying that's bloody stupid! Clear enough?

私は、繰り返しを喜ばすために理解しないか。 :twisted:

Buggrem I told 'im, millenium hand and shrimp I told 'im.

Also, I vote keep damage as is. I like it the way it is. The nature of these ships s that if you blow a hole n one, somebody inside is gonna die through decompression, explosion, falling off their chair in a comical fashion as someone shakes the camera etc.

 

[Reaverman]

I voted keep as is too :wink:

 

[Valen is my name]

i think it probably is fair, but the damage and crew levels should not always be the same, or nearly the same at least. i know some ships have a difference but not many do, isuppose what i'm trying to get changed, or at least some support for, is the crew of white stars. i realisewhy the damage is low, but the crew should be highe, that way the self-repairing would actually be worth while, at the minute damage is not too much of a concern when doing hit and run attacks with the white strs, but crew is because they only have about 12 and there is no way to replenish the crew during battle, so after 12, or sometimes less, hits you have a ship which may be structurally okay because of the self repair but has no crew, thus it is out of the battle, because of this i find my white stars die too quickly

 

[Delthos]

I'm the original poster.

My problem is that the current rules don't allow for an advanced ship that is really hard and tough but has a small crew, as every damaging hit kills a crew man as well, it makes it pointless for any race to design a ship like that. Maybe some thing like the following would be better than my original chart. I don't have a problem with a ship that can be destroyed before it crew is, that is plausible. In the current rules you can't have a tough ship that can survive for very long with if it has a small crew. That just isn't possible with the rules as they stand.

1. No Damage
2-3. -1 Damage
4-5. -1 Crew and -1 Damage
6. Critcal Hit, -1 Crew and -1 Damage

It would probably require some re-evaluation of some of the special rules and some of the ship stats, but I feel it would open opportunities for even more ship types and tactics. A Whitestar's self repair would actually be useful in a non-campaign game then. It's probably too late for something this big for 2nd edition, but I think it would be a good change.

 

[Burger]

My problem is that the current rules don't allow for an advanced ship that is really hard and tough but has a small crew, as every damaging hit kills a crew man as well, it makes it pointless for any race to design a ship like that.

Ah, your problem is that you see each point of crew as one man/woman/alien. That is not the case. Look at it as being a percentage of the crew. For example an Omega is crewed by many more than 62 crewmen, probably more like 2000 (I'm sure someone can come up with the real figure). So each point of crew is actually something like 30 crew being killed. Whereas something like the White Star, has a much lower crew, possibly even just 12... so in this case, each box is a crewman. So you see, a hit on an Omega actually kills more people than on an "advanced" White Star, even though it is killing a lower percentage of the crew.

 

[captainsmirk]

The probelm here is that the Omega has highly variable crew levels. It seems that it can be operated by about 360 people, but can carry over 1000 total.

EAS Cerberus apparently had a crew of 360.
547 died on board the Roanoke.
And the destroyers at Mars in Endgame had about 1000 people on board a piece, according to Franklin...


Nick

 

[Fenix]

I like the damage table. It's simple and easy to remember. The one thing I do have a problem with (and it's a minor one) is that of the critical hits. (Before I go off on my rant, I should say that I only have the starter set, so many of my complaints may have been fixed in SFoS and Armageddon.) The main thing is the critical hit damage table. When you roll things like: 'multiple fires' or whatever, you take damage to your crew, but it's not a constant damage, so you have no incentive to fix it. The other thing is Ammunition explosions. You can't repair a catastrophic explosion in the ship's magazine.